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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 542
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I agree.
Some people are engaged in New Age philosophy.
One of those is basing a belief on modern definitions.
That is a lot closer than New Age philosophy than those who are being accused.
Hmmm....seems that Steves definition is considered largely correct insofar as what most people mean when they say " new age "...which is exactly what Steve and I and others have said it meant in the common vernacular.
The fact is that You and Steve are using New Age definitions.
The same New Age that You and Steve condemn.The New Age
philosophy and interpretations are not correct if they differ from the
original definition.The point was that Seve condemns New Age and insist on using
New Age to condemn New Age.
I suppose You don't see the problem with that.
Regardless of which is the most common,
the only accurate definition is the one intended by the originator.
If I disregard your definition of kihisho and make up my own,am I the one that's correct?
Basing a belief on new age definitions to prove that New Age is wrong
isn't exactly the most intelligent way of getting a message across.
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 2,085
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candie wrote:
I agree.
Some people are engaged in New Age philosophy.
One of those is basing a belief on modern definitions.
That is a lot closer than New Age philosophy than those who are being accused.
Hmmm....seems that Steves definition is considered largely correct insofar as what most people mean when they say " new age "...which is exactly what Steve and I and others have said it meant in the common vernacular.
The fact is that You and Steve are using New Age definitions.
The same New Age that You and Steve condemn.The New Age
philosophy and interpretations are not correct if they differ from the
original definition.The point was that Seve condemns New Age and insist on using
New Age to condemn New Age.
I suppose You don't see the problem with that.
Regardless of which is the most common,
the only accurate definition is the one intended by the originator.
If I disregard your definition of kihisho and make up my own,am I the one that's correct?
Basing a belief on new age definitions to prove that New Age is wrong
isn't exactly the most intelligent way of getting a message across.
Ok let me try to explain this a bit more simply for you...
In the context of Christianity....which is all that matters....Christians mean the modern definition of " new age " as directly applied to the hodge podge mixture of quasi religious philosophies and practices as used and founded by modern new agers themselves in addition to what they are considered to be by most others.
You can argue for " original definition " all you wish....but most people will have no idea in hell what you are talking about until or unless you repeatedly clarify and show them that supposed original definition from a credible source. This especially applies to most traditional fundamental ( Bible based ) Christian groups and Churches.
The quoted applied definitions I gave earlier were from SECULAR sources anyway, not self proclaimed new age or even Christian sources. So it seems you personally don't accept the commonly understood and used Christian definition, and apparently you also don't accept the secular definitions as quoted and offered.
And it's not just " myself and Steve " that stand against the modern new age movement and beliefs....the Bible clearly does as well. Almost all new age philosophies and beliefs, at some point or another, directly contradict Scripture and the need for a personal Savior.
I would agree of course that all the new age philosophy and religious mixtures are in fact quite ancient in origin, but that isn't the real point....new or old they are still incorrect Biblically speaking.
Steve, myself, and others simply use the modern term because it is most easily referenced and understood by most others in reference to the incorrect religious beliefs and practices modernly grouped under that term.
In other words...if we want people to know what we are talking about and refering to we will naturally and logically use the common given term understood by the most people, instead of launching into a liguistic etimology and history lesson that would in many cases simply occlude or confuse the critical issue at hand.
Cylon force inbound, all Vipers engage ! Weapons free...Fire, Fire, Fire ! - Battlestar Galactica
Today IS a good day to die ! - Commander Worf, Star Trek the Next Generation
I'm not anxious to die, i'm just anxious to make a difference - Character in Pearl Harbor, movie.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 542
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In the context of Christianity....which is all that matters....Christians mean the modern definition of " new age " as directly applied to the hodge podge mixture of quasi religious philosophies and practices as used and founded by modern new agers themselves in addition to what they are considered to be by most others.
Let me also try to explain it a little simpler.
Their wrong.
The very use of new Age definitions makes one New Age also.
Steve has based some of His beliefs on New Age definitions.
He is a lot closer to being New Age than he cares to admit.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 2,085
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candie wrote:In the context of Christianity....which is all that matters....Christians mean the modern definition of " new age " as directly applied to the hodge podge mixture of quasi religious philosophies and practices as used and founded by modern new agers themselves in addition to what they are considered to be by most others.
Let me also try to explain it a little simpler.
Their wrong.
The very use of new Age definitions makes one New Age also.
That is, of course, ridiculous.
It is like saying that if one uses scientific definitions one is somehow automatically a scientist.
Preposterous.
You also seem to have ignored the fact that I offered definitions from secular sources....not new age...not Christian.
Believe as you wish, but everyone else knows precisely what is being discussed when we refer to or use the term new age.
Well...ok....everyone that is Christian and has heard the term used or applied does at any rate.
Cylon force inbound, all Vipers engage ! Weapons free...Fire, Fire, Fire ! - Battlestar Galactica
Today IS a good day to die ! - Commander Worf, Star Trek the Next Generation
I'm not anxious to die, i'm just anxious to make a difference - Character in Pearl Harbor, movie.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 542
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What's preposterous is trying to define New Age
with one simple definition. It is not that simple.
Some New Age combines eastern religion with Christianity,some don't.
The New Age definition tries to tie everything into on package that can be
condemned easily. Some New Age is nothing more than Christianity combined with
scientific realism.Not all New Age falls into the definition You and Steve use.
Some of the more modern beliefs of the Baptist church,
for instance is far removed from the beliefs of Roger Williams, who was in favor of
religious tolerance.To not believe in religious tolerance is a New Age belief,especially
if one is a Baptist.
I never said that others don't understand what you mean when you say New Age.
I understand what you mean.The fact that your meaning is understood don't make it
an accurate definition.
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 11,145
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Ki,
We probably need to cut JWest a little slack on this.
New Age is really a brand new term for him to use.
Prior to last week he was calling it "New Wave". lol
So, I can understand why he's SO confused.
Perhaps what he is trying to say is that the term
new age refers to anything happening "today".
(In this "new age".) lol
Therefore, he would consider anyone that is alive to be a "new ager".
Hmm... I wonder if he think those who have passed on are "old agers"? lol
Or maybe those who started practicing new age in the 60s are old agers?
Does he want us to call mistero an old ager? I hope not. lol
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 2,085
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candie wrote: What's preposterous is trying to define New Age
with one simple definition. It is not that simple.
The only complexity involved in defining the modern new age movement stems from its lack of unified creed or religious practice and philosophy. Because of the diversity and often rapidly shifting groups and beliefs or mixtures thereof, classifying them all independently is impossible. Thus the generalization " new age " is used as it serves to categorize the majority of such groups and adherants under an easily understood and referenced term.
candie wrote:
Some New Age combines eastern religion with Christianity,some don't.
The New Age definition tries to tie everything into on package that can be
condemned easily.
1) Most new age combines eastern influence and some portions of Christianity. Perhaps not all, but most.
2) You actually should be saying " The Secular / Christian " definition tries to tie everything into a recognizable package. Remember that most self proclaimed " new agers " don't even believe in sin and therefore condemnation.
candie wrote:
Some New Age is nothing more than Christianity combined with
scientific realism. Not all New Age falls into the definition You and Steve use.
True, not all new age falls directly under the definition that Steve, I, and many other use...a definition once again also proclaimed by secular sources. But most do, and since those we are talking to about it usually refer to the definition we use...common understanding results and that is all that really matters.
candie wrote:
Some of the more modern beliefs of the Baptist church,
for instance is far removed from the beliefs of Roger Williams, who was in favor of
religious tolerance. To not believe in religious tolerance is a New Age belief,especially
if one is a Baptist.
I'm not sure about Roger Williams....I am assuming he was or is of some prominence in the Baptist denomination...perhaps its founder though you did not specify.
What I am sure of is that regardless of Mr. Williams stance, or anyone elses, the fact is that Jesus never adopted or promoted religious tolerance under the modern applied definition most used by common people. Jesus stated " I am the way...no one comes to the Father but by Me " and also " You are either with me or against me, no one can serve two masters ". Jesus may have allowed other religious views of course, which is one of the original definitions of tolerance..." to allow the existance of "...but He in no way tolerated any other religious view as far as the commonly used definition applied by most people today...which is basically " to accept and affirm as equal ".
So no, to not believe in religious tolerance is certainly not a new age belief. In fact most self proclaimed new agers DO believe in so called religious tolerance....such is actually almost a necessity for them to be able to attempt to mix and match different opposed belief structures as they often do.
candie wrote:
I never said that others don't understand what you mean when you say New Age.
I understand what you mean.The fact that your meaning is understood don't make it
an accurate definition.
Its accurate enough for most people Jwest, acurate enough for most Christians to know immediately what is being refered to. It may not be " technically accurate " in every possible detail of course...again because the nature of the new age movement is extremely diversified and often shifts with the wind...but as a generalization it is very accurate indeed as far as common understanding.
Cylon force inbound, all Vipers engage ! Weapons free...Fire, Fire, Fire ! - Battlestar Galactica
Today IS a good day to die ! - Commander Worf, Star Trek the Next Generation
I'm not anxious to die, i'm just anxious to make a difference - Character in Pearl Harbor, movie.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 2,085
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stevelundgren wrote:Ki,
We probably need to cut JWest a little slack on this.
New Age is really a brand new term for him to use.
Prior to last week he was calling it "New Wave". lol
So, I can understand why he's SO confused.
Perhaps what he is trying to say is that the term
new age refers to anything happening "today".
(In this "new age".) lol
Therefore, he would consider anyone that is alive to be a "new ager".
Hmm... I wonder if he think those who have passed on are "old agers"? lol
Or maybe those who started practicing new age in the 60s are old agers?
Does he want us to call mistero an old ager? I hope not. lol
New Wave refers to a modern musical seperation or trend, which may or may not be involved with or stem from influence by new age beliefs. I'm sure Jwest knows that, maybe he just accidently used the wrong term once....I don't know.
As for the definition of new age....am I understanding you to mean that Jwest honestly believes the actual definition means something chronologically new versus something chronologically older ?
I suppose Jwest would have to, by rights, confirm or deny that possibility.
I will say however that IF that is the proffered definition Jwest believes in, then basically anything after day one in creation is supposedly new age....which would be ridiculous in most applications.
Cylon force inbound, all Vipers engage ! Weapons free...Fire, Fire, Fire ! - Battlestar Galactica
Today IS a good day to die ! - Commander Worf, Star Trek the Next Generation
I'm not anxious to die, i'm just anxious to make a difference - Character in Pearl Harbor, movie.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 11,145
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kihisho wrote:stevelundgren wrote:Ki,
We probably need to cut JWest a little slack on this.
New Age is really a brand new term for him to use.
Prior to last week he was calling it "New Wave". lol
So, I can understand why he's SO confused.
Perhaps what he is trying to say is that the term
new age refers to anything happening "today".
(In this "new age".) lol
Therefore, he would consider anyone that is alive to be a "new ager".
Hmm... I wonder if he think those who have passed on are "old agers"? lol
Or maybe those who started practicing new age in the 60s are old agers?
Does he want us to call mistero an old ager? I hope not. lol
New Wave refers to a modern musical seperation or trend, which may or may not be involved with or stem from influence by new age beliefs. I'm sure Jwest knows that, maybe he just accidently used the wrong term once....I don't know.
As for the definition of new age....am I understanding you to mean that Jwest honestly believes the actual definition means something chronologically new versus something chronologically older ?
I suppose Jwest would have to, by rights, confirm or deny that possibility.
I will say however that IF that is the proffered definition Jwest believes in, then basically anything after day one in creation is supposedly new age....which would be ridiculous in most applications.
My whole post was facetious. Didn't you see the lol's?
Maybe I need to LOL so you will see them. Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 542
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Ki.Roger Williams founded the Baptist Church.
He started the movement with religious tolerance in mind.
The modern Baptist Church has little in common with It's founder, and
is a lot closer to being liberal than most would care to admit.Those who don't
believe in religious tolerance have started their own New Age belief that
is not Fundamentally Baptist.If I didn't agree with the original doctrine of the
Baptist Church I think I would find another one.
OH that's right. I did.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 11,145
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candie wrote:
Ki.Roger Williams founded the Baptist Church.
He started the movement with religious tolerance in mind.
The modern Baptist Church has little in common with It's founder, and
is a lot closer to being liberal than most would care to admit.Those who don't
believe in religious tolerance have started their own New Age belief that
is not Fundamentally Baptist.If I didn't agree with the original doctrine of the
Baptist Church I think I would find another one.
OH that's right. I did.
The ploy seems to be calling everything new age so as to make it acceptable.
What could be wrong if "everybody" is doing it?
Matthew 7:13 NIV
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Psalm 119:104 NIV
I gain understanding from your precepts; therefore I hate every wrong path.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 11,145
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mistero wrote:The following comment was left on my blog by Mr. Lundgren: ...
Just to be clear, mistero invited any "non-basement" types to the "basement" with this topic.
Don't blame us. This topic was an invitation. Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 542
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