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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 4,036
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Hey Steve. You are not to take what I say on this forum as speaking against you. Nor anyone else who may be reading. It is the SYSTEM. Satan has thrown a huge wrench into the "works".
My beef is with the system you are in and all the false churches surrounding us that take on the garb of "sanctimony".
Granted, you read the Bible one way and I read it another. We even have different translations. I do not doubt your sincerity one moment, you are speaking right from the hip and so am I.
I think I've done more reading that you have on the line of EGW and the track record of the RCC. I have compared EGW with the Bible and see no discrepancy. Her detractors will dilligently be successful in taking things out of context.
My remarks on this thread are designed to cause questioning and awakeness, even at the cost of being popular. The way to the Kingdom of God is narrow and rough to the traveler; the pit-falls along the way are many, so are the detractors.
People will make fun of such as me in a heartbeat. I do not attend church on Sunday, I am a lacto-ovo vegitarian and I do not cuss nor drink nor tell dirty jokes, etc etc etc
So as far as the world is concerned, I am an odd-ball. I believe in the Bible teaching that in the last days there will be people who are inspired by the Holy Spirit, dreaming dreams and seeing visions. There is plenty of texts for that.
I also believe that ONLY people who follow the Bible dictates will receive these dreams and visions. The Holy Spirit isn't poured out on people who are not following the Bible rules of conduct.
Also you have the issue of the Anti-christ and the Mark of the Beast. These are teachings that the world discards. As they do the 6 day creation.
This is a normal position, and that is why much Bible study and prayer is called for. Line upon line and precept upon precept.
Till I drop, Sunday is a child of the Papacy, the Anti-christ power. All who follow the RCC policies and dogmas are in the same canoe.....heading over the falls....and into the lake of fire.
Terry D. Take Steve up on his offer, he helped me Big Time! It is nice to use color and size to convey your thoughts......=)
Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Ps 119:136
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,943
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paulwhut wrote:
... People will make fun of such as me in a heartbeat. I do not attend church on Sunday, I am a lacto-ovo vegitarian and I do not cuss nor drink nor tell dirty jokes, etc etc etc
So as far as the world is concerned, I am an odd-ball. I believe in the Bible teaching that in the last days there will be people who are inspired by the Holy Spirit, dreaming dreams and seeing visions. There is plenty of texts for that.
I also believe that ONLY people who follow the Bible dictates will receive these dreams and visions. The Holy Spirit isn't poured out on people who are not following the Bible rules of conduct...[/size][/color]
Thanks for he note paulwhut. I have never thought less of you either. We are both sincere.
And I wouldn't dream of belittling you for your choice of a day of worship or your chosen diet. That's for you to decide. And not mine to criticize. However, if you want to tell me when to worship and what to eat, that's when I get in your face.
I'm not sure what you make of the prophetic visions and insights I have. You seem to claim that I am unqualified.
Those with similar gifts have written letters to me from God. When I lay the letters side by side, it is obvious that they came from the same author, even though different folks gave them to me.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 4,036
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stevelundgren wrote:paulwhut wrote:... So then, of the 400+ churches out here, which ofthem are "PROTESTING".
Just a simple question,,,AND as you strongly defend your "sundaysacredness/foreverburinghell/etc etc etc) consider where these teachings got started.........! Every Protestant church is protesting by their mere existence.
However, as much as you would like to claim that Sunday worship and the doctrine of Hell as eternal punishment originated with the RCC, that simply is not the case.
History shows that gentile Christians were gathering to worship on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week) long before the RCC made a law declaring Sunday as the sabbath. Even the New Testament declares that the believers broke bread (the Lord's Table) on the first day of the week.
And Jesus taught very clearly about the eternal punishment of hell.
So, the real thing that needs to be questioned here is the claims of the SDA that don't agree with history or the Bible.
Now I'm protesting. I'm protesting against the SDA!!!!!!!!!!!
No. Jesus taught about the eternal "effects" of hell. HOw can you have a burning hell when the saints are going to tread upon the ashes of the wicked?....that is just one point.
"History shows that gentile Christians were gathering to worship on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week) long before the RCC made a law declaring Sunday as the sabbath. Even the New Testament declares that the believers broke bread (the Lord's Table) on the first day of the week."
GRANTED, there may have been offshoots gathering on the first day to celebrate or commemorate the resurrection.....but this in no way applies to the rest of the Christians. The 7th day sabbath held true throughout.
As to breaking of bread, they did this every day. If you will look up in your search engine you will find them breaking bread during the week as well. It was a term for a meal. We break bread three times a day......=)
The "Lords Day"....is the sabbath day. Plenty of texts to support that, absolutely NONE of the first day texts give any hint that it was to be designated the "Lords' Day".
None. Six of the first day texts were recordeing that they came to the grave and it was empty. the other two record where they were hiding in the upper room for "fear of the Jews" and the other text was when Paul was preaching on a Saturday night and Utecus fell out of the window, and Paul and company continued on their journey the next day, which was the first day of the week.
There is absolutely no scripture to support the sacredness of the first day of the week.
All sentiments attached to the First day were supplied by men. (sun worshippers and the RCC)
Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Ps 119:136
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,943
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paulwhut wrote:
... As to breaking of bread, they did this every day. If you will look up in your search engine you will find them breaking bread during the week as well. It was a term for a meal. We break bread three times a day......=)...
I've deaalt with all the other issues at length, but here is one we haven't talked about in a while.
The breaking of bread was the observance of the Lord's Table, not just any old meal.
Here are the key scriptures to make this point.
Acts 2:42 NIV
They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
Acts 2:46 NIV
Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,
Acts 20:7 NIV
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.
1 Corinthians 10:16 NIV
Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?
If we insert that the breaking of bread was only a meal, three of these scriptures make no sense.
- They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to eating a meal and to prayer.
- They ate a meal in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,
In Acts 20:7 Paul preached after the breaking of bread.
- ... And is not the eating a meal a participation in the body of Christ?
No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All these scriptures refer to the Lord's Table.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,062 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD,
We should get you set up with colorful text and a picture under your name and a signature line.
Do you want help with that? You're like a man running around half-dressed here. lol
I can tell you how to do this stuff if you are interested.
The col0or and size of text are easy. I just preferred the normal size and color for text. The avatar I thought about, but didn't do anything about. Are they provided or do I provide my own? "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,943
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TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:TerryD,
We should get you set up with colorful text and a picture under your name and a signature line.
Do you want help with that? You're like a man running around half-dressed here. lol
I can tell you how to do this stuff if you are interested.
The col0or and size of text are easy. I just preferred the normal size and color for text. The avatar I thought about, but didn't do anything about. Are they provided or do I provide my own? They are provided. But some folks use their own.
If you go to support at the top of the page and then view your profile you can work from there.
You can choose an avatar and create a signature line too.
There are a lot of image choices for avatars now. We'll be excited to see what you choose.
And you can change it when ever you want, so you aren't stuck with your choice.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,062 Location: WI
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"History shows that gentile Christians were gathering to worship on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week) long before the RCC made a law declaring Sunday as the sabbath. Even the New Testament declares that the believers broke bread (the Lord's Table) on the first day of the week." GRANTED, there may have been offshoots gathering on the first day to celebrate or commemorate the resurrection.....but this in no way applies to the rest of the Christians. The 7th day sabbath held true throughout. As to breaking of bread, they did this every day. If you will look up in your search engine you will find them breaking bread during the week as well. It was a term for a meal. We break bread three times a day......=) The "Lords Day"....is the sabbath day. Plenty of texts to support that, absolutely NONE of the first day texts give any hint that it was to be designated the "Lords' Day". None. Six of the first day texts were recordeing that they came to the grave and it was empty. the other two record where they were hiding in the upper room for "fear of the Jews" and the other text was when Paul was preaching on a Saturday night and Utecus fell out of the window, and Paul and company continued on their journey the next day, which was the first day of the week. There is absolutely no scripture to support the sacredness of the first day of the week. All sentiments attached to the First day were supplied by men. (sun worshippers and the RCC) [/color] [/size][/quote] Trying to refresh my memory on the Easter Orthodox Church I came upon this. http://en.wikipedia.org/...Sabbath_in_Christianity
You may find it informative. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,943
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Thanks Terry.
That's a good article about the sabbath.
Did you see the reference to Ignatius' Epistle to the Magnesians? (see Chapter 9)
And also the bit about the eighth day sabbath?
Hmm...
Question: Why was jewish circumcision on the eighth day?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,943
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This is a historic document written in the first century a.d.
It helps us to define the Lord's Day.
It also shows the attitude about the jewish sabbath.
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians (a.d. 30–107)
Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ.
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things
have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath,
but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has
sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we
have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples
of Jesus Christ, our only Master—how shall we be able to live apart from Him,
whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their
Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them
from the dead.
If, then, those who were conversant with the ancient Scriptures came to newness
of hope, expecting the coming of Christ, as the Lord teaches us when He says,
“If ye had believed Moses, ye would have believed Me, for he wrote of Me;”
and again, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it,
and was glad; for before Abraham was, I am;” how shall we be able to live
without Him? The prophets were His servants, and foresaw Him by the Spirit,
and waited for Him as their Teacher, and expected Him as their Lord and Saviour,
saying, “He will come and save us.” Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath
after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for “he that
does not work, let him not eat.” For say the [holy] oracles, “In the sweat of
thy face shalt thou eat thy bread.” But let every one of you keep the Sabbath
after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation
of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the
day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed
space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them.
And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the
Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days
[of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for
the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over
death was obtained in Christ, whom the children of perdition, the enemies of the
Saviour, deny, “whose god is their belly, who mind earthly things,”
who are “lovers of pleasure, and not lovers of God, having a form of godliness,
but denying the power thereof.” These make merchandise of Christ, corrupting
His word, and giving up Jesus to sale: they are corrupters of women, and covetous
of other men’s possessions, swallowing up wealth insatiably; from whom may ye be
delivered by the mercy of God through our Lord Jesus Christ!
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,062 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:[quote=TerryD][quote=stevelundgren]TerryD,
We should get you set up with colorful text and a picture under your name and a signature line.
[color=darkgreen][size=6]They are provided. But some folks use their own.
If you go to support at the top of the page and then view your profile you can work from there.
You can choose an avatar and create a signature line too.
There are a lot of image choices for avatars now. We'll be excited to see what you choose.
And you can change it when ever you want, so you aren't stuck with your choice.
OK? "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 4,036
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stevelundgren wrote:paulwhut wrote:
... As to breaking of bread, they did this every day. If you will look up in your search engine you will find them breaking bread during the week as well. It was a term for a meal. We break bread three times a day......=)...
I've deaalt with all the other issues at length, but here is one we haven't talked about in a while.
The breaking of bread was the observance of the Lord's Table, not just any old meal.
Here are the key scriptures to make this point.
Acts 2:42 NIV
They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
Acts 2:46 NIV
Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,
Acts 20:7 NIV
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.
1 Corinthians 10:16 NIV
Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?
If we insert that the breaking of bread was only a meal, three of these scriptures make no sense.
- They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to eating a meal and to prayer.
- They ate a meal in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,
In Acts 20:7 Paul preached after the breaking of bread.
- ... And is not the eating a meal a participation in the body of Christ?
No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All these scriptures refer to the Lord's Table.
Boy we disagree on this one. You clim allofthese texts speak of the First dayof the week being a holy day, or that they were commemorating the resurreftion, or communion? Nope. The early church was struggling to strengthen each other, the new risen Christian way of doing things, the elimination of the sacrificial system, salvation through Christ etc etc. Coming together daily and eating together was strengthening, encourageing. They ate several times every day. It was a fellowship activity. Breatking bread together had nothing to do with the "Lords Day". attaching itself to the First Day. Nothing. Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Ps 119:136
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 12/21/2008
Posts: 234
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stevelundgren wrote:rickpassio wrote:stevelundgren wrote:I have provided multiple historical and biblical supports for every one of my positions. I have also provded multiple historical and biblical supports against every one of your positions. You have not provided historical supports for every one of your positions which I have proven beyond a reasonable doubt. If you make the assertion again, I will again prove you wrong, for everybody to see. Bringing people to Christ should never involve deceit, whether conscience of it or not. Sorry, my edit made the statement difficult to understand.
You could have asked a question rather than make hateful, accusing, and threatening comments, Rick.
In reference to my stand against Seventh Day Adventism, I have provided multiple historical supports for some of my positions, and multiple biblical supports for every one of my positions.
How's that? Any questions?
Rick, I expect you to correct the false accusation you have made against me on this public forum.
And NO, I will not post ALL my supports for you to review here.
Why would you read over paulwhut's catholic hating posts without saying a word and then attack me for no reason?
Are you confusing me with paulwhut?
You are absolutely right. My apologies to you are complete and sincere. I thought Paul wrote the comment. Please forgive my stupidity.
This is just like you to swoop down and post a snipe at someone and then disappear.
We call it drive-by posting. I don't know what you call it. Too busy, I suppose.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 12/21/2008
Posts: 234
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Steve,
I hope you found my apology within the las posting. I messed up when I replied to your quote. I hope you read it.
Rick
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 4,036
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GoodMorning to all of you. Hope your day goes well. Today is Friday, the preparation day, the sabbath is coming on.
You may use all documents you wish to try and authenticate the Sunday as the Lords' Day. But the Book you need to concentrate on is the Holy Bible. The Word of God.
Your history books were written by everydayman whowas not inspired by the Holy Spirit. The devil himself inspired people to write against the Bible. Using Titles and Position of man to negate the Bible Teachings.
Even Popes claim they were "God on earth".
If you put your trust in "Historical writings", rather than the Word of God, they you will perish with the historical writings in the lake of fire.
Oh yes, circumcision on the eighth day, was because the baby's ability to clot was not developed until the 8th day. Amazing that they knew this but then God told them I'm sure.
March 12
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Further Study: “It is not enough for us to believe that Jesus is not an impostor, and that the religion of the Bible is no cunningly devised fable. We may believe that the name of Jesus is the only name under heaven whereby man may be saved, and yet we may not through faith make Him our personal Saviour. It is not enough to believe the theory of truth. It is not enough to make a profession of faith in Christ and have our names registered on the church roll. ‘He that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.’ ‘Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His command- ments.’ 1 John 3:24; 2:3. This is the genuine evidence of conver- sion. Whatever our profession, it amounts to nothing unless Christ is revealed in works of righteousness.”—Ellen G. White, Christ’s Object Lessons, pp. 312, 313.
Discussion Questions:
l How can we avoid the trap of legalism, that of thinking that our works will save us or that of cheap grace, thinking that our works have nothing at all to do with our salvation? How do we strike the right balance here? Which ditch do you tend to lean more toward, cheap grace or legalism?
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l What is the inherent danger of having our lives driven by the desire to do good works? What can this lead to, and how can we avoid it?
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l Think of a person you know who seems to be “righteous.” What is this person like? How does he or she act? How does he or she treat people? What does this person talk about? What can you learn from this person?
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l We tend to think of righteousness in individual terms, which is correct. But is there not a community element, as well? Can our church community be “righteous”? If so, how? What would a “righteous” church community look like? How does yours compare with the ideal that you’ve come up with?
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l If salvation by faith means more than merely making a pro- fession of faith in Christ and having our names registered on the church roll, then what does it really mean? What is “faith” in the biblical sense of the term?
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94
A Child’s Song
by Maye porTer
inside
Asap peeked into the hospital ward in her hometown of Kavieng, Papua New Guinea. The doctor wasn’t there, so she slipped inside. She knew that the doctor didn’t want her to be around sick people, but Asap was on a mission. The patients looked so sad, and she wished she could do something to cheer them up.
Sing! A voice seemed to whisper. So Asap walked from bed to bed singing songs she had learned in Sabbath School.
One old man, Salatiel, smiled as Asap approached his bed. “What church do you attend, Girlie,” he asked teasingly.
“The Adventist church,” she answered. “What day do you attend church?” he asked. “On Sabbath, the seventh day,” she said innocently. Her simple answer surprised him. He gave her his Bible and said,
“Show me a verse that says that Saturday is the Sabbath.” Five-year-old Asap couldn’t read, but she opened the Bible and pointed
to a verse. “Here,” she said to the man. “Read this.” Salatiel read the verse Asap had pointed to. He blinked and read it
again. “The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord” (Exod. 20:10). “Go get your father,” he told Asap. “Hurry!” Asap scampered from the hospital and soon returned with her father. “I
want you to see this miracle,” Salatiel said, pointing to the verse Asap had shown him. “Surely the Sabbath is the Lord’s day of worship!” he said.
Asap’s father studied the Bible with Salatiel, and by the time the old man was well enough to return to his village, he had accepted many new Bible truths. “How am I going to explain this to my pastor and others in my vil- lage?” Salatiel asked. Asap’s pastor offered to go with him to help him.
Many people listened as Salatiel and the pastor explained the Sabbath and other Bible truths, and soon several asked to be baptized. The pas- tor invited Asap and her family to attend the baptism, and when it was Salatiel’s turn to be baptized in the sea, little Asap took his hand and led him to the water. Today a new group of believers worship in a little bam- boo church in their village—all because a little girl obeyed when the Holy Spirit whispered, “Sing!”
Someone needs your help to find the Savior today. And every day your mission offerings help to share your faith with people you may never meet.
Maye porTer and her pastor-husband have served as missionaries throughout the South Pacific Division. Currently they share their faith on Norfolk Island, off the coast of eastern Australia.
Produced by the General Conference Office of Adventist Mission. Web site: www.adventistmission.org 95
Stor
Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Ps 119:136
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 4,036
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The Lord spoke on circumcision in Gen 17:10-12 concerning the babies.
Have a very nice day!
Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Ps 119:136
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,943
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TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:TerryD,
They are provided. But some folks use their own.
If you go to support at the top of the page and then view your profile you can work from there.
You can choose an avatar and create a signature line too.
There are a lot of image choices for avatars now. We'll be excited to see what you choose.
And you can change it when ever you want, so you aren't stuck with your choice. OK? Wow, that's great Terry.
I like the way the signature line ties in with the avatar. Nice work.
Hmm...
I wonder what text treatment would look best with that?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,943
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rickpassio wrote:Steve,
I hope you found my apology within the las posting. I messed up when I replied to your quote. I hope you read it.
Rick I found it. I forgive you.
Sorry, I was a bit combative also. Please accept my apology as well.
Thanks Rick. God bless you.
This page actually demonstrates some of things I learned while interacting with you.
I hope all is well with you. Send me a note to inform me if you are realizing your mission hopes.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,943
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paulwhut wrote:
Boy we disagree on this one. You clim allofthese texts speak of the First dayof the week being a holy day, or that they were commemorating the resurreftion, or communion?
Nope. The early church was struggling to strengthen each other, the new risen Christian way of doing things, the elimination of the sacrificial system, salvation through Christ etc etc.
Coming together daily and eating together was strengthening, encourageing. They ate several times every day. It was a fellowship activity.
Breatking bread together had nothing to do with the "Lords Day". attaching itself to the First Day.
Nothing.
There is none so blind as those that will not see.
My point was, and it is very clear from my presentation:
The "breaking of bread" was the celebration of the Lord's table, or what we call communion.
If we insert the phrase "celebration of the Lord's table" into those verses instead of "eating a meal", then they make sense. Your claim was wrong, as was clearly demonstrated.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,943
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paulwhut wrote:
The Lord spoke on circumcision in Gen 17:10-12 concerning the babies.
Have a very nice day!
Okay. You have a nice day as well.
Hmm...
So what did circumcision symbolize for the babies and when was it to be done?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,062 Location: WI
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Oh yes, circumcision on the eighth day, was because the baby's ability to clot was not developed until the 8th day. Amazing that they knew this but then God told them I'm sure. [/color] [/size][/quote] I'll bet they leaned that buy trial and error. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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