|
|
Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
stevelundgren wrote:paulwhut wrote:... The Bible has clearly shown the affection God places upon his sabbath, even a casual reading of the Bible reveals that... Really?
Show us an effectionate statement by God about the sabbath in the new testament.
Extra points if God is speaking to gentiles.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
extra points huh?.....les see......hmmmmmmmm
I'm thinking................I think it is somewhere around Heb 4:9 talking about the "people of God".........
ok, your move.......=)
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
stevelundgren wrote:paulwhut wrote:
Steve is correct. If you ignore my posts, you will not be confused.
Just read his posts.....or the rest of them and you will be in the same canoe.
You will then be able to do anything you wish, lie, steal, kill, go to church on Sunday........eat pig.
Worship other gods....................
serve mammon.
cause you "are under grace, not under any law....." or words to that effect. and you have no "rules" to hold you back.
There's a gross overstatement or three. Have I said anything of the sort?
Now, "serve mammon" comes up again.
Quite some time ago you accused me of not tithing. (And you accuse others.)
Though it was none of your business, I felt it important to establish my belief and faithfulness in tithing.
In so doing I asked you whether you personally tithe on the gross or on the net.
I don't recall getting a reply to that question. Would you care to respond now?
Romans 6:14-15 NIV
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
Galatians 3:25 NIV
Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
Galatians 5:18 NIV
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
How can I accuse you or anyone of not tithing? I do not sit and watch you make up your offerings........?
And you are again hung up in Galations where Paul is concerned with the "conversion" of the Jews from the Ceremonial rites and such to Jesus haveing fullfilled them all.
Sure some of the people had made a "god" of the Ten Commandments too......you have people in all groups who take things to the extreme, and who do not correctly discern the Scriptures.
And since the"shaking" is in progress, people who do not adhere to the Bible teachings will become more and more obvious and will eventually leave the church.
In the meanwhile, people are reading their Bibles and waking up to the teachings of the Bible and how they contrast with the teachings of their particular church.
And you "law and grace" diatribe........you can not use the "grace" excuse to permit you to break the Ten Commandments. It won't work.
Also you can not keep 9 of them and not keep the other one.
That doesn't wash either.
It is all or nothing.
If I were a lawyer, I could better explain to you the "testator" verses in Heb 9:15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
I understand the Blood of Jesus "sealed" the New testament and nothing could be changed.
No sundays added, or sabbath of the Fourth Commandment taken away.
The New Testament is sealed with the Blood of Christ.
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:Animals serve 2 purposes, food and keeping the earth cleaned. The food rules in the Bible apply to everyone if they want to be healthy no mater if you are Jewish Christian, atheist or what. If it's a scavenger, don't eat it. I believe that's another lesson leaned over many years by trial and error. You are a funny guy Terry.
If God told us we shouldn't do something, then we didn't need trial and error to find out it was bad. God said so in the first place. Those who didn't follow what God was saying found out the hard way.
I think the bigger issue is understanding whether a directive given by God to the Israelites wandering in the wilderness still applies to us today.
============================================================================
Sure it does when it comes to diet. Our bodies today are not different than their bodies were. The rules about diet given in Leviticus apply to all of Gods' people to enable them to live lives energetically and free from disease.
The cleaner your blood, the clearer your thoughts etc etc
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 3,643 Location: WI
|
stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:Animals serve 2 purposes, food and keeping the earth cleaned. The food rules in the Bible apply to everyone if they want to be healthy no mater if you are Jewish Christian, atheist or what. If it's a scavenger, don't eat it. I believe that's another lesson leaned over many years by trial and error. You are a funny guy Terry.
If God told us we shouldn't do something, then we didn't need trial and error to find out it was bad. God said so in the first place. Those who didn't follow what God was saying found out the hard way.
I think the bigger issue is understanding whether a directive given by God to the Israelites wandering in the wilderness still applies to us today.
I believe those were health rules (not laws) and what was healthy then is still healthy. I just heard recently that pork was bad for you. Can't remember the reason. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 11,134
|
paulwhut wrote:stevelundgren wrote:paulwhut wrote:... The Bible has clearly shown the affection God places upon his sabbath, even a casual reading of the Bible reveals that... Really?
Show us an effectionate statement by God about the sabbath in the new testament.
Extra points if God is speaking to gentiles.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
extra points huh?.....les see......hmmmmmmmm
I'm thinking................I think it is somewhere around Heb 4:9 talking about the "people of God".........
ok, your move.......=) That's pretty silly. Look what else is said in that chapter concerning the sabbath.
You've been asking all along when the sabbath day was changed. There you go.
Hebrews 4:7 NIV
Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today...
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
Good Morning America how are ya?
Today is Wednesday, the middle of the week!!!!!!!
May all of you be healthy and drawing closer to the Lord Jesus!
We are living in a most interesting time!
We have grown so sophisticated that we easily take apart Gods' Word. We will pick and choose what we wish and ignore what we wish.Mr Steve, silly is a word that denotes simple-mindedness. Anyone who will take the Ten Commandments and adhere to "some" of the principles and ignore other of the principles...........is silly.
Considering you are a center of influence, what you say and do is an influence on others, consequently you are held accountable for your conduct.
The wages of sin is death, and the TC points out sin. You ridicule the Fourth Commandment and teach others to do the same.
Mat 18"6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
March 17
A Conscience Seared
Last week we saw how Jesus had sharp words for the fake “righ- teousness” of the scribes and the Pharisees (see Matt. 23:27), call- ing them “hypocrites.” The word hypocrite in the original language (hupokrites) means “actor.” Jesus was letting them know that He could discern their inner feelings and secret sins. It was as though He was telling them, “You act one way but inside you are another, as though you were acting in a play.
Cannot you be real?” Another time Jesus said, “ ‘Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: “This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me” ’ ” (Mark 7:6, NKJV). His meaning is obvious.
Read 1 Timothy 4:2 and Titus 1:15. What important point is Paul talking about here? Our conscience is the place where the Holy Spirit makes contact with us. What can happen to us if we con- stantly are doing wrong?
____________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________
No question, the more we continue in evil, and the more we do what we know is wrong, the more defiled our conscience becomes and the further from the Truth we get. Again, you can have more than enough head knowledge to be saved. The final fires will, unfortunately, have way too many folk who knew more than enough objective truths to be saved. But, as we are saying, objective truth alone is not a fruit of the Spirit. Truth lived out in our life, that’s the fruit we need to bear.
Read Hebrews 5:14 and John 7:16, 17. How do these texts help us better understand the idea of truth as a fruit of the Spirit?
____________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________
What’s your own experience of a “seared conscience”? How long did it take until the act that had, at first, seared your con- science barely touched it at all? Why did that happen, and why is it so spiritually dangerous?100
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
The Bible
Luke 24:44
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
KJV
Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV
2 Tim 3:15-17
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
Rom 15:4
4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
KJV
Jer 15:16
16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O Lord God of hosts.
KJV
Ps 12:6
6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
KJV
John 17:17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
KJV
Job 23:1-12
23 Then Job answered and said,
2 Even to day is my complaint bitter: my stroke is heavier than my groaning.
3 Oh that I knew where I might find him! that I might come even to his seat!
4 I would order my cause before him, and fill my mouth with arguments.
5 I would know the words which he would answer me, and understand what he would say unto me.
6 Will he plead against me with his great power? No; but he would put strength in me.
7 There the righteous might dispute with him; so should I be delivered for ever from my judge.
8 Behold, I go forward, but he is not there; and backward, but I cannot perceive him:
9 On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him:
10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.
11 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined.
12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.
KJV
Ps 119:9-12
9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
12 Blessed art thou, O Lord: teach me thy statutes.
KJV
Ps 119:105
105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
KJV
Ps 119:130
130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
KJV
Isa 40:8
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
KJV
2 Peter 1:20-21
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
KJV
Acts 17:11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
KJV
John 5:39
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
KJV
Isa 28:10
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
KJV
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 11,134
|
paulwhut wrote:Mr Steve, silly is a word that denotes simple-mindedness. Anyone who will take the Ten Commandments and adhere to "some" of the principles and ignore other of the principles...........is silly.
Considering you are a center of influence, what you say and do is an influence on others, consequently you are held accountable for your conduct... By the same token, anyone that would choose to be so myopic as to center their whole doctrine on something that is a complete non-issue in the new covenant seems a bit off kilter to me.
We will all be held accountable.
If you choose to observe the jewish sabbath, you have that freedom in Christ.
I don't disdain sabbatarians. That is, unless they call me names like "sunday keeper".
Even then, it's the behaviour I have a problem with.
Extoll the benefits all you like. Just don't expect us to follow you when we are free to choose.
Galatians 5:1 NIV
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
Good Morning America AND all you thread buddies!
Happy Thursday to You!
I have tried in the past to explain the difference between the old and the new covenant, and have not succeeded very well. The original covenant agreement was made there at Mt. Sini when rhe Children of Israel agreed to obey God and keep his commandments.
The people failed and over and over again the covenant agreement was broken.
In the New Testament, the new covenant is explained in the Book of Hebrews chapters' 8,9 and 10.....where the law instead of being written on tables of stone, is now being written on the fleshly tables of our hearts. And as Christ is enthroned in our hearts, therein also inscribed is the Ten Commandments.....the new covenant.
The thread over the past couple years has been devoted to bringing to light the requirements of the Ten Commandments (especially the 4th, as it was controverted), so that people would see how they had been tricked by the churches out here in Christendom.
However, people persist in confusing the Apostle Pauls' writings agains the Ceremonial laws as being mingled with the Moral law.
There are no more yearly sabbaths or feast days those rites pointed to the coming of the Messiah, just as there is to be no more sacrificing of animals for sin. Jesus was THE sacrifice and the sacrificial system ended with the death of the Lamb of God.
The sin problem persists, the Ten Commandments persists, only this time not on tables of stone, but in our hearts, those who love Jesus and his Word.
So as we are still not to lie or steal, we are still to observe the sabbath of the Fourth Commandment.
Sin is heinous. The TC defines sin, tells us what sin is.......all ten rules make up a whole.
The ones who teach that the TC were abolished, done away with, erased, that we no longer have to adhere to them........are teaching false teachings.
And to be avoided. You can not walk in harmony with these people and please God. No compromising, no letting down the standard.
"To the law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
March 18
Walking in Truth
“I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father” (2 John 4, NKJV). “If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth” (1 John 1:6, NKJV). What important point is being made in both these texts regarding what it means to have a saving relationship with Jesus?
____________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________
Truth, as a fruit of the Spirit, isn’t just what we know—it’s what we do. Living in God’s light means more than just knowledge. Look at how John explains what walking in darkness is like: “He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes” (1 John 2:9–11).
Thus, walking in the light, walking in the truth, is more than just keeping the Ten Commandments, at least according to the letter of the law. In the end, when all is said and done, isn’t living in the truth basi- cally manifested by how we deal with people and how we treat them? If we are sharp, cross, unforgiving, vengeful, hateful, unsympathetic; if we treat people as means rather than as ends, if we are trampling upon others in an attempt to advance ourselves, then we are walking in darkness, no matter how strictly we keep the Sabbath, no matter how faithfully we adhere to the health message, no matter how much we profess faith in Jesus, pay tithe, and go to church. In one sense, it’s often a lot easier to learn correct doctrine and theology than it is to be kind, selfless, and giving to others, is it not?
Think about your interactions with folk in the past twenty- four hours. How have you treated them? What kind of words did you use? How comfortable would you be if your attitudes and actions toward them were made public (one day they will; see Matt. 10:26). What does your answer tell you about what changes you need to see made in your life?
101
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
I will post in the most pleasing manner, the nicest colors.....(thanks to Mr. Steve)....the following: Heb 8:8-10
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 10:16-24
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21And having an high priest over the house of God;
22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
Sure we could crochet, put our minds into limbo, a stupor, forget God, forget life, forget any responsibility........just ignore the problem.....
But the fact remains, we do have a problem, sin.
And sin will be destroyed in the lake of fire.
And if you and I find ourselves in this burning lake, perishing, it will be our own fault.
Sin is a transgression of the law.
Where there is no law, there is no sin.
If sin exists, then there is still a law that defines it.
Come to church this sabbath
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 3,643 Location: WI
|
There are no more yearly sabbaths or feast days those rites pointed to the coming of the Messiah, just as there is to be no more sacrificing of animals for sin. Jesus was THE sacrifice and the sacrificial system ended with the death of the Lamb of God. [/color] [/size][/quote] I believe that the last supper was the celebration of a feast day (Passover). I believe Jesus wanted his followers to continue the celebration of Passover and instructed them on how they should do that. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
TerryD........I agree with you. In my opinion, the Last Supper (Communion) is probably also in remembrance of the "Passover"......and the blessings that follow in observing this ordinence is special......."do this in remembrance of Me......."
paul
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
Law & Grace
Q. Did Christ come to destroy Gods’ law?
A. Matt 5:17
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. KJV
Did the apostle Paul do away with the law?
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. KJV
Q. How did the apostle John feel about God’s commandments?
A. 1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. KJV
Q. What if we keep most of the commandments?
A. James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. KJV
A. Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. KJV
Q. Isn’t love all I really need?
A. Matt 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. KJV
1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. KJV
Q. Does law-keeping help get us to heaven?
A. Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. KJV
Rom 11:5-6 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
KJV
Q. What really ended at the cross?
A. Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; KJV
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; KJV
Q. Of what do these “ordnances” consist?
A. Num 19:2-4 This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:
3 And ye shall give her unto Eleazar the priest, that he may bring her forth without the camp, and one shall slay her before his face:
4 And Eleazar the priest shall take of her blood with his finger, and sprinkle of her blood directly before the tabernacle of the congregation seven times: KJV
Ex 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. KJV
Ex 12:43 And the Lord said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof: KJV
Q. What is “the yoke of bondage” we no longer are under?
A. Gal 5:1-2 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. KJV
NOTE: In the New Testament church existed some Jewish converts to Christianity who insisted on obedience to the Old Testament ceremonial laws of Moses along with a belief in Jesus Christ. (See Acts 15:1, 24; Galations 2:4; 6:12, 13.) Because of these Judaizing Christians, Paul several times spoke against the “yoke of bondage,” the “ordinances,” and the law of Moses (i.e. the ceremonial law), which laws were done away with at the cross. However, these statements of Paul should never be applied to God’s eternal law of Ten Commandments, without which there would be no sin (Romans 4:15) and consequently no need for a Saviour.
Q. Why do we need Gods’ law?
A. James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. KJV
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. KJV
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. KJV
James 1:23-25 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. KJV
Q. Why do we need Gods’ grace, or loving kindness?
A. Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: KJV
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; KJV
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: KJV
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. KJV
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: KJV
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. KJV
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. KJV
Q. Does God completely forgive our confessed sins?
A. Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
KJV
Q. What do we have after God forgives our past life?
A. Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: KJV
Q. Does this grace release us from a law-abiding life?
A. Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. KJV
Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? KJV
Q. Is the keeping of Gods’ law necessary?
A. Matt 19:17-19 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. KJV
Eccl 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
KJV
1 John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. KJV
1 John 3:21-22 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. KJV
Q. Can man obey in his own strength?
A. Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. KJV
Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. KJV
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. KJV
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 9:31-33 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. KJV
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. KJV
Q. How then can we obey Gods’ commandments?
A. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. KJV
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. KJV
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. KJV
Rom 8:6-9 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
KJV
Rom 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. KJV
Q. Why do we need a “new heart”?
A. Ezek 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. KJV
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; KJV
Eph 4:23-24 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. KJV
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
KJV
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: KJV
Q. How do we become righteous in Gods’ sight?
A. Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: KJV
Phil 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. KJV
Heb 13:20-21 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. KJV
1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
KJV
1 Cor 15:10
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
KJV
Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. KJV
1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. KJV
Phil 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
KJV
Heb 12:1
12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
KJV
CONCLUSION: Grace in no way makes void or of none effect the eternal law of God. The law points out sin. Grace removes sin. The law reveals the obedient life. Grace makes the obedient life a reality—Christ working from within causing us “both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 11,134
|
paulwhut wrote:... I have tried in the past to explain the difference between the old and the new covenant, and have not succeeded very well. The original covenant agreement was made there at Mt. Sini when rhe Children of Israel agreed to obey God and keep his commandments.
The people failed and over and over again the covenant agreement was broken.
In the New Testament, the new covenant is explained in the Book of Hebrews chapters' 8,9 and 10.....where the law instead of being written on tables of stone, is now being written on the fleshly tables of our hearts. And as Christ is enthroned in our hearts, therein also inscribed is the Ten Commandments.....the new covenant... I mostly agree with your first statement, but completely disagree with the last statement.
There is no new testament scripture to specifically confirm that the Ten Commandments are inscribed on our hearts.
You always seem to be "hiding" the Ten Commandments inside other things to present them as valid today.
Here's that ugly question again that you have never been able to answer.
Where does the New Testament specifically mention that the Ten Commandments, including observing the jewish sabbath, are for gentiles?
Another question (or three). Who were the judaizers (the circumcision group), what were they doing, and why did the Apostles Paul stand against them?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 11,134
|
TerryD wrote:There are no more yearly sabbaths or feast days those rites pointed to the coming of the Messiah, just as there is to be no more sacrificing of animals for sin. Jesus was THE sacrifice and the sacrificial system ended with the death of the Lamb of God.[/color][/size] I believe that the last supper was the celebration of a feast day (Passover). I believe Jesus wanted his followers to continue the celebration of Passover and instructed them on how they should do that.[/quote] paulwhut wrote:TerryD........I agree with you. In my opinion, the Last Supper (Communion) is probably also in remembrance of the "Passover"......and the blessings that follow in observing this ordinence is special......."do this in remembrance of Me......."
paul Hold on there guys. The Passover was from the old covenant.
What did Jesus say about covenants in reference to the Lord's Supper? See below.
Luke 22:20 NIV
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
1 Corinthians 11:25 NIV
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 9/25/2007 Posts: 1,503
|
In Mark, Luke and John(I'm not sure about Mat., I didn't read it this a.m.)they all state that they were preparing for the Passover feast. Since Jesus was Jewish, I would think that he would participate inall the feasts. Wasn't the last supper a Passover feast?
Where is everybody???????????
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 3,643 Location: WI
|
stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:There are no more yearly sabbaths or feast days those rites pointed to the coming of the Messiah, just as there is to be no more sacrificing of animals for sin. Jesus was THE sacrifice and the sacrificial system ended with the death of the Lamb of God.[/color][/size] I believe that the last supper was the celebration of a feast day (Passover). I believe Jesus wanted his followers to continue the celebration of Passover and instructed them on how they should do that. paulwhut wrote:TerryD........I agree with you. In my opinion, the Last Supper (Communion) is probably also in remembrance of the "Passover"......and the blessings that follow in observing this ordinence is special......."do this in remembrance of Me......."
paul Hold on there guys. The Passover was from the old covenant.
What did Jesus say about covenants in reference to the Lord's Supper? See below.
Luke 22:20 NIV
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
1 Corinthians 11:25 NIV
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."
[/quote] From WikipedeA The Hebrews were instructed to mark the doorposts of their homes with the blood of a spring lamb and, upon seeing this, the spirit of the Lord passed over these homes, hence the term "passover".[2] When Pharaoh freed the Hebrews, it is said that they left in such a hurry that they could not wait for bread to rise. In commemoration, for the duration of Passover, no leavened bread is eaten, for which reason it is called "The Festival of the Unleavened Bread". Jesus is the the NEW PASSOVER. The wine representing his blood and the bread the his body. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 11,134
|
Okay folks.
Seems to be a misunderstanding here.
1) YES, the last supper was a celebration of Passover.
2) NO, Gentile Christians are not expected to celebrate Passover.
3) NO, The Lord's Supper (communion) is not a celebration of Passover.
I hope that clears up a few points here.
Let me know if you have further questions for me. Thanks.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 3,887
|
nestgotjesus wrote:In Mark, Luke and John(I'm not sure about Mat., I didn't read it this a.m.)they all state that they were preparing for the Passover feast. Since Jesus was Jewish, I would think that he would participate inall the feasts. Wasn't the last supper a Passover feast?
Where is everybody???????????
Yes it was, and until Jesus died, all of the laws were in effect. When he died, the temple vail was rent in two, the sacrificial lamb escaped, the ceremonial system came to an end. Type had met Anti-type.
When Jesus died, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, from then on His Blood was the atoning sacrifice for our sins............no more blood was to be shed. That is where the RCC is in huge error by daily rekilling Jesus again and again........
Twas to be done once, for all!
The Ceremonial law was abolished. That left the Moral and the Dietary and the Civil laws.
Jeremiah 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
|
|
|