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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,985
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sumr0luv wrote:stevelundgren wrote:sumr0luv wrote:... Sin is breaking God's spiritual law--The Ten Commandments. That is definitely and specifically what sin is! ... Please present scripture that says:
- God's spiritual law is definitely and specifically the Ten Commandments.
- Sin is definitely and specifically breaking the Ten Commandments.
Among Jesus' final words in the New Testament (recorded in the last chapter of the book of Revelation), He said: "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life..." (Rev. 22:14).
And the Apostle Paul speaking of the Tenth commandment said:
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" (Rom. 7:12). What law? The law that says "Thou shalt not covet" (verse 7). And it is this law that Paul calls "spiritual" (verse 14) — and spiritual things are eternal!
All the commandments are spiritual! God didn't make one spiritual and leave the others out. That would make no sense and would be ridiculous.
Sin is the transgression of the Law(1john 3:4) Sorry, there's nothing definite or specific about your answers.
Rev. 22:14 says "commandments" not the Ten Commandments. There are more than just the ten.
Rom. 7 wasn't specific either. It says "the commandment", it doesn't say the Ten Commandments.
Matthew 22:36-40 NIV
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Question: Which of the Ten Commandments are these? What numbers?
- Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
- Love your neighbor as yourself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When Jesus was asked which were the greatest commandments, the Ten Commandments didn't even come up.
Why didn't he say the sabbath commandment was most important? The SDA named their religion after it.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 4/21/2010 Posts: 1,457 Location: Michigan
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stevelundgren wrote:sumr0luv wrote:stevelundgren wrote:sumr0luv wrote:... Notice that it starts out with "remember" This very statement proves that the Sabbath command was already understood by God's chosen people and that, as a part of His covenant God was reminding them of a spiritual command of which they already had knowledge! ... No it doesn't.
Do you make this stuff up as you go along???
The word "remember" means to observe on a regular basis. Not bring to mind. As in remembrance.
The SDA loves to play on that one saying the command God wants to remember we promptly forget. (Ha, ha.)
This is the dictionary meaning: re·mem·ber /rɪˈmɛmbər/ Show Spelled[ri-mem-ber] Show IPA –verb (used with object) 1. to recall to the mind by an act or effort of memory; think of again: I'll try to remember the exact date. 2. to retain in the memory; keep in mind; remain aware of: Remember your appointment with the dentist. 3. to have (something) come into the mind again: I just remembered that it's your birthday today. This seems to say to remember you have to have for knowledge of something in order to have a rememberance of it I think it's more like "be mindful of", than "have foreknowledge of". Which would work better in the verse?
1) Be mindful of the sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Keep in mind the sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Remain aware of the sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Regularly observe the sabbath day to keep it holy.
2) Have foreknowledge of the sabbath day to keep it holy. ???
- Recall to the mind the sabbath day to keep it holy. ???
- Have the sabbath day come into the mind again to keep it holy. ???\
- Bring to memory the sabbath day to keep it holy. ???
I think it's more like "be mindful of", than "have foreknowledge of". Which would work better in the verse?
Are you writing the Bible now Steve? The bible says remember. The Bible is the inspired word of God. It says remember because that is what is the intended meaning in the passage. They were to remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Remembering requires a knowledge before hand.For more info:CLICK HERECOG Writer LinkIf you open your bible be led by the Holy spirit.
Let God own you.
Do not believe doctrines of men.
Prove all things for yourself.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,985
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sumr0luv wrote:Are you writing the Bible now Steve? The bible says remember. The Bible is the inspired word of God. It says remember because that is what is the intended meaning in the passage. They were to remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Remembering requires a knowledge before hand.[/size][/size] Writing the Bible? Hardly.
We were trying to define a word. Inserting another word or phrase with the same meaning is a good way to test that.
The test proved that your interpretation was wrong.
Are you misinterpreting the Bible?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,072 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:When the ten commandments disappear your point may be correct. As of now, they are still in every Bible. The fact that the scriptures I posted above are in the Bible validates my point.
I do not wish for the Ten Commandments to be removed from the Bible.
Only that folks would view them in the proper perspective.
There is absolutely no call to give them a prominence that the new testament does not.
Especially in regards to the jewish sabbath.
Consider this:
- The title Ten Commandments does not even appear in the new testament.
- The Ten Commandments, as such, are not listed in the new testament.
- Failure to observe the sabbath is not listed as a sin.
- The apostle Paul's letter to gentiles makes no mention of the Ten Commandments.
Did Jesus observe the sabbath? Did the 12 apostles observe the sabbath? Did PAUL observe the sabbath? All these prominent people observing the sabbath gives the sabbath prominence. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,072 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:For all you King James fans.
Galatians 2:21 KJV
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Christ died to change one part of the law, not to begin a whole new religion. According to whom?
Did Jesus say that?
Do any of the gospel writers confirm what you are saying?
I hate to keep repeating myself, but it doesn't seem to sink in. MT 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one JOT or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,985
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TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:For all you King James fans.
Galatians 2:21 KJV
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Christ died to change one part of the law, not to begin a whole new religion. According to whom?
Did Jesus say that?
Do any of the gospel writers confirm what you are saying?
I hate to keep repeating myself, but it doesn't seem to sink in. MT 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one JOT or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. Hmm...
That verse doesn't say Christ died to change one part of the law. It says no part of the law will change. Right?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,072 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:For all you King James fans.
Galatians 2:21 KJV
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Christ died to change one part of the law, not to begin a whole new religion. According to whom?
Did Jesus say that?
Do any of the gospel writers confirm what you are saying?
I hate to keep repeating myself, but it doesn't seem to sink in. MT 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one JOT or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. Hmm...
That verse doesn't say Christ died to change one part of the law. It says no part of the law will change. Right?
OK right. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,985
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So Christ couldn't have died to change the ceremonial law. Doesn't work that way.
That would be a change in the law. (not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen)
The law is a singular thing. It is indivisible.
The law of Moses, not the laws of Moses.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,985
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There's the law, and there's grace.
There's the old testament, and there's the new testament.
There's the old covenant, and there's the new covenant.
The law, is still the law.
The old testament, is still the old testament.
The new testament, is still the new testament.
The old covenant, is still the old covenant.
The new covenant, is still the new covenant.
Grace, is still grace.
The old testament, is not the new testament.
The old covenant, is not the new covenant.
The law, is not grace.
There is no change to the individual elements.
The new covenant replaces the old covenant.
The new testament replaces the old testament.
Grace replaces the law.
That's how it works.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 4/21/2010 Posts: 1,457 Location: Michigan
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stevelundgren wrote:sumr0luv wrote:stevelundgren wrote:sumr0luv wrote:... Sin is breaking God's spiritual law--The Ten Commandments. That is definitely and specifically what sin is! ... Please present scripture that says:
- God's spiritual law is definitely and specifically the Ten Commandments.
- Sin is definitely and specifically breaking the Ten Commandments.
Among Jesus' final words in the New Testament (recorded in the last chapter of the book of Revelation), He said: "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life..." (Rev. 22:14).
And the Apostle Paul speaking of the Tenth commandment said:
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" (Rom. 7:12). What law? The law that says "Thou shalt not covet" (verse 7). And it is this law that Paul calls "spiritual" (verse 14) — and spiritual things are eternal!
All the commandments are spiritual! God didn't make one spiritual and leave the others out. That would make no sense and would be ridiculous.
Sin is the transgression of the Law(1john 3:4) Sorry, there's nothing definite or specific about your answers.
Rev. 22:14 says "commandments" not the Ten Commandments. There are more than just the ten.
Rom. 7 wasn't specific either. It says "the commandment", it doesn't say the Ten Commandments.
Matthew 22:36-40 NIV
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Question: Which of the Ten Commandments are these? What numbers?
- Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
- Love your neighbor as yourself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When Jesus was asked which were the greatest commandments, the Ten Commandments didn't even come up.
Why didn't he say the sabbath commandment was most important? The SDA named their religion after it.
1st question answer: To love your God with all your heart soul and mind sums of the first 4 commandments---
To address these issues, we need to start by letting the Bible define the ten commandments. In Exodus 19:19-20 God called Moses up to Mount Sinai. In chapter 20, the ten commandments were listed as shown below (NKJ throughout):
Commandment 1 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me" (Ex 20:2-3).
Commandment 2 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments" (vs. 4-6)
Commandment 3 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain" (v. 7).
Commandment 4 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do not work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, no your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it" (vs. 8-11).
Love your neighbor as yourself sums up the last 6 commandments---
Commandment 5 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you" (v. 12).
Commandment 6 "You shall not murder" (v. 13).
Commandment 7 "You shall not commit adultery" (v. 14).
Commandment 8 "You shall not steal" (v. 15).
Commandment 9 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" (v. 16).
Commandment 10 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's" (v. 17).
You can't love your God with all your heart, soul and mind without keeping the first four commandments!
Likewise you can't love your neighbor as yourself without keeping the last 6 commandments!
Therefore you have it all Ten Commandments summed up in two commands!
Matthew 22:36-40 NIV
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' [b]All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."[/b]
For more info:CLICK HERECOG Writer LinkIf you open your bible be led by the Holy spirit.
Let God own you.
Do not believe doctrines of men.
Prove all things for yourself.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 4/21/2010 Posts: 1,457 Location: Michigan
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stevelundgren wrote:There's the law, and there's grace.
There's the old testament, and there's the new testament.
There's the old covenant, and there's the new covenant.
The law, is still the law.
The old testament, is still the old testament.
The new testament, is still the new testament.
The old covenant, is still the old covenant.
The new covenant, is still the new covenant.
Grace, is still grace.
The old testament, is not the new testament.
The old covenant, is not the new covenant.
The law, is not grace.
There is no change to the individual elements.
The new covenant replaces the old covenant.
The new testament replaces the old testament.
Grace replaces the law.
That's how it works.
The new covenant only replaces the sacrificial laws. The levitical priesthood. Christ sacrifice replaced that and made the law(Ten commandments) more binding. Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Rev 22:14). Since "those who do His commandments...have the right to enter...the city" (Rev 22:14), the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us". So then, if the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross", what was? What does the Bible say? "having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Col 2:14). It was the handwriting of requirements. Which requirements were wiped out? It appears that two things were wiped out. One would be the requirements of the Levitical priesthood (Heb 9:1,6-10). And why? "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all" (Heb 10:4,10). The other (which is related) would be the death penalty, as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom 6:23). It is of interest to note that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" is a Greek legal term that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--through Jesus the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"  , not the law! "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them" (Heb 10:16). The Old Testament and the New testament are both inspired words of God and comprise the one book the Bible. You cannot understand the New testament without having the Old. "all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto good works" (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
all scripture includes both the Old and New Testaments (2 Timothy 3:15-16)
The OLD COVENANT -- meaning the AGREEMENT between God and Israel, made at Mt. Sinai -- is replaced by the preaching of the NEW! But most certainly the NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES show very plainly that those SCRIPTURES we call "The Old Testament" ARE NOT DONE AWAY, for we read in I Peter 1:25, "THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURETH FOREVER!" Do you know, that for about six years after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the founding of the NEW Testament Church, that this New Testament Church had and used ONLY THE OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES? Christ preached the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM -- the same Gospel He commanded every minister to preach under the NEW Testament dispensation, yet do you know He preached ALTOGETHER OUT OF THE OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES? Jesus commanded: "Man SHALL live by EVERY Word of God." How can we prove that He included the Old Testament in that command? -- that He meant ALL the Bible? More later--- Good Night! For more info:CLICK HERECOG Writer LinkIf you open your bible be led by the Holy spirit.
Let God own you.
Do not believe doctrines of men.
Prove all things for yourself.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,072 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:So Christ couldn't have died to change the ceremonial law. Doesn't work that way.
That would be a change in the law. (not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen)
The law is a singular thing. It is indivisible.
The law of Moses, not the laws of Moses.
The law is NOT a singular thing. The Ten Commandments were important enough that God wrote them himself in stone. I believe the significance of putting them in stone was to show they were permanent. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,072 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:There's the law, and there's grace.
There's the old testament, and there's the new testament.
There's the old covenant, and there's the new covenant.
The law, is still the law.
The old testament, is still the old testament.
The new testament, is still the new testament.
The old covenant, is still the old covenant.
The new covenant, is still the new covenant.
Grace, is still grace.
The old testament, is not the new testament.
The old covenant, is not the new covenant.
The law, is not grace.
There is no change to the individual elements.
The new covenant replaces the old covenant.
The new testament replaces the old testament.
Grace replaces the law.
That's how it works.
If you want to believe Paul, yes. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 4,039
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stevelundgren wrote:For all you King James fans.
Galatians 2:21 KJV
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Righteousness does not come by the law, Righteousness is obedience to the law, and this is only accomplished thru the Holy Spirit living within us.
Jesus Christ is our righteousness. Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Ps 119:136
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 4,039
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:For all you King James fans.
Galatians 2:21 KJV
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Christ died to change one part of the law, not to begin a whole new religion. According to whom?
Did Jesus say that?
Do any of the gospel writers confirm what you are saying?
Yes! The entire efforts of the Apostles were focused on presenting Christ as the Lamb of God and thus the ceremonial rites and laws were fullfilled in Him. No more sacrificial lambs and rites looking forward to the coming Messiah. The Messiah had come, in the Person of Jesus Christ.
The Epistles of Paul were trying to tell the people of the New Covenant. Salavation was in Jesus Christ the Redeemer.
You persist in clinging to the ENTIRE law of the Bible. You must discard the Ceremonial Law consisting of sacrifices and yearly sabbaths and feast days.
Those quote you persist in quoting deal with the Ceremonial system that was ended at the Cross. Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Ps 119:136
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 4,039
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stevelundgren wrote:So Christ couldn't have died to change the ceremonial law. Doesn't work that way.
That would be a change in the law. (not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen)
The law is a singular thing. It is indivisible.
The law of Moses, not the laws of Moses.
Flawed reasoning! Of course Christ died to disolve the Ceremonial Law. The Ceremonial law pointed to the coming Messiah, the Lamb of God.
The law is not a "singular thing".
We will never come together on this Bible subject.
Never! Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Ps 119:136
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/17/2008 Posts: 4,039
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Good Morning all you thread buddies! Today is Friday, the preparation.
Mr. Terry, you will have to take SL aside and explain to him certain basic common sense principles that he struggles with. SL has problems with thoughts and context.
There is hope for the man but it is going to be a struggle.
Indeed.
July 30
Further Study: Read Ellen G. White, “Christ the Center of the Mes- sage,” p. 388, in Selected Messages, book 1; “The Call of Abraham,” pp. 125–127; “The Law and the Covenants,” pp. 363, 364, in Patriarchs and Prophets; “The Sermon on the Mount,” pp. 307, 308; “Controversy,” p. 608; “ ‘It Is Finished,’ ” pp. 762, 763, in The Desire of Ages.
“In that age of caste, when the rights of men were often unrecog- nized, Paul set forth the great truth of human brotherhood, declaring that God ‘hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.’ In the sight of God all are on an equality.” —Ellen G. White, The Acts of the Apostles, p. 238.
“In order for man to be saved, and for the honor of the law to be main- tained, it was necessary for the Son of God to offer Himself as a sacrifice for sin. He who knew no sin became sin for us. He died for us on Calvary. His death shows the wonderful love of God for man, and the immutability of His law.”—Ellen G. White, Selected Messages, book 1, p. 240.
“Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righ- teousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way in which he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner’s account.” —Ellen G. White, Selected Messages, book 1, p. 367.
“If Satan can succeed in leading man to place value upon his own works as works of merit and righteousness, he knows that he can overcome him by his temptations, and make him his victim and prey. . . . Strike the door-posts with the blood of Calvary’s Lamb, and you are safe.”—Ellen G. White, Review and Herald, Sept. 3, 1889.
Discussion Questions:
44
l Why is it important to understand salvation by faith alone without the deeds of law? What errors can that knowledge pro- tect us from? What dangers await those who lose sight of this?
1
l What other reasons can you give for the continued validity of God’s law, even when we understand that the law and obedience to it are not what save us?
2
l Dwell more on this idea that because of the Cross all human beings are equal. Why is it that so often Christians, who have the Cross before them, seem to forget this important truth and can be guilty of racial or ethnic or even national prejudice?
3
l As justified sinners, we have been made the recipients of grace and undeserved favor from God, whom we have sinned against. How should this fact impact how we deal with others? How full of grace and favor are we toward those who have wronged us?
4
Loving the Truth
by Lysa saLinas
inside Story
My name is Lysa, and I live in the Philippines. But while I still lived in Malaysia, a friend gave me a Bible and invited me to her church. I went and found a group of loving people who drew me to God. I read the Bible and joined a small-group Bible study. I surrendered my life to Christ and joined that church. I felt fulfilled and blessed.
Then my father died, and my mother felt all alone. She called me back to the Philippines to live with her and help care for my disabled sister. I returned to the Philippines and began attending a church of the same denomination as the one I had left in Malaysia. But it wasn’t the same. I missed the close fellowship of loving friends who had been closer than family to me.
Then one day a man came to our home selling books. I wasn’t interested in what he had to say, but my mother invited him in and they talked for a long time. Finally I began listening to them. I asked what church he belonged to, and he told me he was a Seventh-day Adventist. I hadn’t heard of Adventists before, and I asked him many questions.
He couldn’t answer all my questions that day, but he promised to return. The next day the man came back with his Bible. Again I began asking questions, and he answered each one from the Bible.
He invited me to evangelistic meetings that were being held in a church not far from our home. I went because I was thirsty for God’s Word. I attended the meetings, but the Sabbath was too strange for me to accept. I wondered why these Adventists worship on Saturday when other Christians worship on Sunday. But I was determined to study the issue for myself. If the Sabbath was true, I needed to know so I could tell my spiritual brothers and sisters in Malaysia.
I asked God to show me the truth in this Sabbath issue. I visited the library of a religious university in town searching for a book on the history of Christianity. I prayed again and opened my eyes. There was the book I was looking for. I checked it out and started reading it. Sure enough, it said that the Bible Sabbath was Saturday; men had changed the day of worship to Sunday.
I began attending the Adventist church, and in time my daughter and I were baptized. I pray for my family and for my Christian friends in Malaysia who don’t yet know this wonderful truth.
Thank you for sharing your mission offerings so that people such as I can learn to love God’s truth.
Lysa Salinas shares her faith in central Philippines.
Produced by the General Conference Office of Adventist Mission. Web site: www.adventistmission.org 45
Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Ps 119:136
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,985
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TerryD wrote:The law is NOT a singular thing. The Ten Commandments were important enough that God wrote them himself in stone. I believe the significance of putting them in stone was to show they were permanent. When you put the word "the" in front of something... you make it a singular thing.
Here's a good example. Jesus didn't say he was a way, a truth and a life.
John 14:6 NIV
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,985
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paulwhut wrote:stevelundgren wrote:For all you King James fans.
Galatians 2:21 KJV
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Righteousness does not come by the law, Righteousness is obedience to the law, and this is only accomplished thru the Holy Spirit living within us.
Jesus Christ is our righteousness. That's a bunch of double-talk.
Righteousness does not come by obedience to the law. If it did, then Christ is dead in vain.
The verse say that grace is frustrated when we try to be righteous by the law.
Let's try that in the NIV.
Here the grace of God would be set aside if righteousness could be gained through the law.
If righteousness could be gained through obedience to the law, Christ died for nothing!
Galatians 2:21 NIV
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,985
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paulwhut wrote:stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:For all you King James fans.
Galatians 2:21 KJV
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Christ died to change one part of the law, not to begin a whole new religion. According to whom?
Did Jesus say that?
Do any of the gospel writers confirm what you are saying?
Yes! The entire efforts of the Apostles were focused on presenting Christ as the Lamb of God and thus the ceremonial rites and laws were fullfilled in Him. No more sacrificial lambs and rites looking forward to the coming Messiah. The Messiah had come, in the Person of Jesus Christ.
The Epistles of Paul were trying to tell the people of the New Covenant. Salavation was in Jesus Christ the Redeemer.
You persist in clinging to the ENTIRE law of the Bible. You must discard the Ceremonial Law consisting of sacrifices and yearly sabbaths and feast days.
Those quote you persist in quoting deal with the Ceremonial system that was ended at the Cross. The verse is asking us to do something, or not do something.
I agree that Christ put an end to the sacrificial system (as part of the whole law).
At that point the sacrifices stopped.
Are you saying this verse is telling us not to make animal sacrifices for our sins?
No, you are saying we are righteous by obedience to the law.
You flipflop back and forth on the deinition of "the law" to suit your needs.
In this verse the term "the law" is used ONLY ONCE, yet you are defining it in two ways in your reply.
The verse says, "if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
You say that means, "if righteousness come by the ceremonial law, then Christ is dead in vain."
BUT...
In the previous post you say about the same verse. "Righteousness is obedience to the law..." - paulwhut
Yet you defined "the law" in this verse as being the "ceremonial" law.
I think if the Apostle Paul meant "the ceremonial law", he would have made it clear.
Yet you claim that righteousness can be gained by observing the law.
Galatians 2:15-16 NIV
"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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