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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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A little context should help.
You cannot use the writings of the Apostle to the gentiles to support being under law.
It will come back to bite you every time.
Romans 3:19-21
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law,
so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather,
through the law we become conscious of sin.
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known,
to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:
A little context should help.
You cannot use the writings of the Apostle to the gentiles to support being under law.
It will come back to bite you every time.
Romans 3:19-21
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law,
so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather,
through the law we become conscious of sin.
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known,
to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Romans 3:19-21
Some ministers would like us to believe that justification and salvation by grace through faith just suddenly appeared when the Son of God lived and died in the first century. They imply that God changed His approach to saving men—that He was either losing the battle to Satan, or the way He had given man was just too hard. It also implies that men under the Old Covenant were saved by keeping the law.
Once a person has sinned, they are under the penalty of the law, and their righteousness is not sufficient to justify them before God. Since all have sinned, the whole world is guilty before God. It takes a righteousness apart from lawkeeping to do this.
Then Paul says that this righteousness is revealed in the Old Testament Law and Prophets! The teaching has been there all along, all through the centuries from Moses to Christ and down to our time! God never changed His course. In the first century, He only openly revealed the means, Christ, through whom would come the righteousness that will justify one before God.
Men have always been justified and saved by grace through faith. People who were saved during Old Testament times looked forward in faith to this being accomplished. We look backward at it as a promise and as fulfilled prophecy.
John W. Ritenbaugh
Is God a False Minister?Read more: http://www.bibletools.or...seID/28012#ixzz1jDjirhle"If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:
A little context should help.
You cannot use the writings of the Apostle to the gentiles to support being under law.
It will come back to bite you every time.
Romans 3:19-21
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law,
so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather,
through the law we become conscious of sin.
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known,
to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Romans 3:19-21
Some ministers would like us to believe that justification and salvation by grace through faith just suddenly appeared when the Son of God lived and died in the first century. They imply that God changed His approach to saving men—that He was either losing the battle to Satan, or the way He had given man was just too hard. It also implies that men under the Old Covenant were saved by keeping the law.
Once a person has sinned, they are under the penalty of the law, and their righteousness is not sufficient to justify them before God. Since all have sinned, the whole world is guilty before God. It takes a righteousness apart from lawkeeping to do this.
Then Paul says that this righteousness is revealed in the Old Testament Law and Prophets! The teaching has been there all along, all through the centuries from Moses to Christ and down to our time! God never changed His course. In the first century, He only openly revealed the means, Christ, through whom would come the righteousness that will justify one before God.
Men have always been justified and saved by grace through faith. People who were saved during Old Testament times looked forward in faith to this being accomplished. We look backward at it as a promise and as fulfilled prophecy.
John W. Ritenbaugh
Is God a False Minister?Read more: http://www.bibletools.or...eID/28012#ixzz1jDjirhle
Wow.
I expected a rebuttal.
What a pleasant surprise to find this. Thanks, Terry.
I agree wholeheartedly.
The reality is that the new covenant proceeded the old covenant.
We look to Abraham as our father of faith, not Moses.
This topic continues into Romans chapter 4.
Romans 4:13-15
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise
that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless,
because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:
A little context should help.
You cannot use the writings of the Apostle to the gentiles to support being under law.
It will come back to bite you every time.
Romans 3:19-21
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law,
so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather,
through the law we become conscious of sin.
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known,
to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Romans 3:19-21
Some ministers would like us to believe that justification and salvation by grace through faith just suddenly appeared when the Son of God lived and died in the first century. They imply that God changed His approach to saving men—that He was either losing the battle to Satan, or the way He had given man was just too hard. It also implies that men under the Old Covenant were saved by keeping the law.
Once a person has sinned, they are under the penalty of the law, and their righteousness is not sufficient to justify them before God. Since all have sinned, the whole world is guilty before God. It takes a righteousness apart from lawkeeping to do this.
Then Paul says that this righteousness is revealed in the Old Testament Law and Prophets! The teaching has been there all along, all through the centuries from Moses to Christ and down to our time! God never changed His course. In the first century, He only openly revealed the means, Christ, through whom would come the righteousness that will justify one before God.
Men have always been justified and saved by grace through faith. People who were saved during Old Testament times looked forward in faith to this being accomplished. We look backward at it as a promise and as fulfilled prophecy.
John W. Ritenbaugh
Is God a False Minister?Read more: http://www.bibletools.or...eID/28012#ixzz1jDjirhle
Wow.
I expected a rebuttal.
What a pleasant surprise to find this. Thanks, Terry.
I agree wholeheartedly.
The reality is that the new covenant proceeded the old covenant.
We look to Abraham as our father of faith, not Moses.
This topic continues into Romans chapter 4.
Romans 4:13-15
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise
that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless,
because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 3:20-31
We are justified through faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. He is the payment for our sins, thus freeing us from sin's penalty, and at the same time, God accounts—or imputes—Christ's righteousness to us. The righteousness that enabled Him to be the perfect sacrifice is accounted as if it is ours! This then makes it possible for us to have access into the presence of the holy God.
But this does not do away with law. It establishes it! It places the law in its rightful position in our understanding of what God is working out in our lives.
John W. Ritenbaugh
Read more: http://www.bibletools.or...eID/28013#ixzz1jH5Tck27
"If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Right.
He's not saying the law that God gave to Israel through Moses is established.
But God's universal law.
This is what my topic. GOD'S LAW: What is it? was all about.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,957
Location: TX
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How about the Laws and examples of commandments being kept within the total context of the New Testament?
Are not those what Paul would be talking about Establishing?
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,957
Location: TX
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stevelundgren wrote:
Right.
He's not saying the law that God gave to Israel through Moses is established.
But God's universal law.
This is what my topic. GOD'S LAW: What is it? was all about.
Should you have not named your topic. RCC'S LAW: What is it? Those are the ones you seem to know all about, follow and use to replace God's law with. Would you not would be better off preaching on a topic you yourself follow, observe and know all about? You know ALL about the RCC's "Works of the Law". You faithfully follow them! Or do you think that by preaching against God's Law that justifies your keeping of RCC's law? 
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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stevelundgren wrote:
Right.
He's not saying the law that God gave to Israel through Moses is established.
But God's universal law.
This is what my topic. GOD'S LAW: What is it? was all about.
 Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,957
Location: TX
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Intangible wrote:stevelundgren wrote:
Right.
He's not saying the law that God gave to Israel through Moses is established.
But God's universal law.
This is what my topic. GOD'S LAW: What is it? was all about.
Rev.22:12-14
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