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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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"You will see volumes of writings and quotes trying to make sun-day valid as the WEEKLY day of worship, BUT NEVER ONE BIBLE SCRIPTURE!" The very same thing can be said about a supposed Christian sabbath command be it the seventh, the first or the eighth day. The simply is NEVER any type of command from Jesus Christ to his disciples to follow the seventh day Sabbath. The fact of the matter is that there IS language in the Bible that quite clearly talks against sabbaths, festivals and new moons.
The actual written Mosaic Covenant is the Ten Commandments. God wrote this covenant with His own finger, yet the Bible clearly tells us these things were a shadow of the reality, NOT the reality, just an image of what was to come.
Sabbaths, festivals and New Moon celebrations make up the central pillar of the Mosaic Covenant laws. There is no longer any need to live in the shadow of what has already come!Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:Sonny35 wrote:... Rev.1:10 "The Lord's Day, is always quoted as to be "proof" to be claimed for the 1st day of the week while there is not one hint of it being so, in fact all one has to do is a little research on the Lord's Day to see it is not a designated day of the week much less the 1st... Judge for yourselves whether this is true.
Revelation 1:9-16
I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom
and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos
because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
10 On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,
11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches:
to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me.
And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
13 and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe
reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.
16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword.
His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. He was prophesying. He was telling about the end times and the day the Lord returns. What language do you suppose he wrote on a scroll what he saw and sent to the seven churches? What language? Not Hebrew as you claim.
No. John was NOT prophesying about the end times and the day the Lord until several chapters later.
Even in this chapter, his vision does not begin until
after he turns around to see the voice that was speaking to him.
"... when I turned I saw..." verse 12 (see below)
He was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day. verse 10
He heard a loud voice behind him. verse 10
He turned around to see the voice. verse 13
When he turned he saw a vision. verse 13
Revelation 1:12
I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me.
And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,957
Location: TX
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You will see volumes of writings and quotes trying to make sun-day valid as the WEEKLY day of worship, BUT NEVER ONE BIBLE SCRIPTURE! In Rev.1:10 "The Lord's Day, is always quoted as to be "proof" to be claimed for the 1st day of the week. How can such a claim be proven from the Scriptures? HOW when the Lord's day in vs.10 is to be then followed up with verses 11 and on make it the 1st day of the week? How can anyone think that because Christ's begins speaking to the churchs that makes it a sun-day??? If that were to make it pretain to a given day (which it doesn't) would it not have been on the Sabbath Day?? Christ "changes not", and what DAY was His custom of speaking and teaching in the the Scriptures? No, to try and claim Rev.1:10 is a sun-day is foolish and has no Scriptural foundation what-so-ever! There is not one verse within the entire Bible that gives any reference to "The Lord's Day" or the "Day of the Lord" being the 1st day, or any of the week, NOT ONE! The only places in the Scriptures where you will find the DAY to be the Lord's DAY is to be found in such Scriptures as listed below and there are many more not here listed, and these as the one in Rev.1:10 never even give the slightest indication as to a day of the week. Ezk.30:3-The DAY...the DAY of the Lord. Isa.2:12, "The DAY of the Lord.", 13:6-The DAY of the Lord, 13:9-The DAY or the Lord. Now for those who are not twisting and misinterpreting Scriptures to promote the RCC sun-day as the day of worship here is a link that states what Rev.1:10 ACTUALY pretains to read note 2. ITS SCOPE, Companion Bible. www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append197.html
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Sonny35 wrote:You will see volumes of writings and quotes trying to make sun-day valid as the WEEKLY day of worship, BUT NEVER ONE BIBLE SCRIPTURE! ... You are missing the point.
No one is trying to show that Sunday is a REQUIRED WEEKLY day of worship.
What we are showing is that the definition of the term "the Lord's Day" is in reference to the first day of the week, the day Jesus rose from the dead.
This is what early church history shows us.
Centuries before the RCC made rest on the sabbath against their law, Christians were meeting for worship on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day.
We are not under law for any mandatory day of worship.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:Sonny35 wrote:You will see volumes of writings and quotes trying to make sun-day valid as the WEEKLY day of worship, BUT NEVER ONE BIBLE SCRIPTURE! ... You are missing the point.
No one is trying to show that Sunday is a REQUIRED WEEKLY day of worship.
What we are showing is that the definition of the term "the Lord's Day" is in reference to the first day of the week, the day Jesus rose from the dead.
This is what early church history shows us.
Centuries before the RCC made rest on the sabbath against their law, Christians were meeting for worship on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day.
We are not under law for any mandatory day of worship.
"If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18-19"If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:Sonny35 wrote:You will see volumes of writings and quotes trying to make sun-day valid as the WEEKLY day of worship, BUT NEVER ONE BIBLE SCRIPTURE! ... You are missing the point.
No one is trying to show that Sunday is a REQUIRED WEEKLY day of worship.
What we are showing is that the definition of the term "the Lord's Day" is in reference to the first day of the week, the day Jesus rose from the dead.
This is what early church history shows us.
Centuries before the RCC made rest on the sabbath against their law, Christians were meeting for worship on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day.
We are not under law for any mandatory day of worship. "If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18-19 Who is adding anything to the book of Revelation? Or the Bible for that matter.
If I look up a word or term in the dictionary or Strong's concordance, does that mean I am "adding to these things"?
No, it doesn't.
Early church history defines the term the Lord's Day.
That makes a clear trail all the way back to the resurrection week when first day of the week meetings began.
Jesus even officiated the first two weeks.
That would have been the ideal time to make a firm statement about the sabbath. If that was his intention.
Why did he choose to visit the disciples on the first day of the week, a week after his resurrection?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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TerryD wrote: "If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18-19 I do hope TerryD, and our silent readers, understand that the quoted admonition refers specifically to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible. Although I believe no one should add or take away from the rest of the Bible text either, that is exactly what has happened over the centuries.
Despite the many translations, I believe that God has seen fit to keep His Word available to all. All the information we need is in the Bible no matter what may have been added or taken away over time.Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:Sonny35 wrote:You will see volumes of writings and quotes trying to make sun-day valid as the WEEKLY day of worship, BUT NEVER ONE BIBLE SCRIPTURE! ... You are missing the point.
No one is trying to show that Sunday is a REQUIRED WEEKLY day of worship.
What we are showing is that the definition of the term "the Lord's Day" is in reference to the first day of the week, the day Jesus rose from the dead.
This is what early church history shows us.
Centuries before the RCC made rest on the sabbath against their law, Christians were meeting for worship on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day.
We are not under law for any mandatory day of worship. "If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18-19 Who is adding anything to the book of Revelation? Or the Bible for that matter.
If I look up a word or term in the dictionary or Strong's concordance, does that mean I am "adding to these things"?
No, it doesn't.
Early church history defines the term the Lord's Day.
That makes a clear trail all the way back to the resurrection week when first day of the week meetings began.
Jesus even officiated the first two weeks.
That would have been the ideal time to make a firm statement about the sabbath. If that was his intention.
Why did he choose to visit the disciples on the first day of the week, a week after his resurrection?
"We are not under law for any mandatory day of worship." is taking away from the book of this prophecy. If John intended to say the First Day of the Week, that's what he would have said."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,957
Location: TX
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stevelundgren wrote:Sonny35 wrote:You will see volumes of writings and quotes trying to make sun-day valid as the WEEKLY day of worship, BUT NEVER ONE BIBLE SCRIPTURE! ... You are missing the point.
No one is trying to show that Sunday is a REQUIRED WEEKLY day of worship.
What we are showing is that the definition of the term "the Lord's Day" is in reference to the first day of the week, the day Jesus rose from the dead.
This is what early church history shows us.
Centuries before the RCC made rest on the sabbath against their law, Christians were meeting for worship on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day.
We are not under law for any mandatory day of worship.
From where is the Lord's Day referenced in the "Scriptures" as the first day of the week? From where do you get the term "the Lord's Day" with MEETING on the first day of the week? I would be interested in reading that "Scripture"? Did John or any of the Apostles ever refer to the first day of the week as the Lord's Day after the resurrection? Did they not just continue calling it the 1st day! Who called the 1st day the Lord's day? Sorry you stand empty handed without Scripture to make your false claim, all you have is your early RCC fathers centuries before for the term the Lord's Day for the 1st day of the week, NOT ONE SCRIPTURE. Sun-day is the day that the RCC says go to church and sun-day is day you go to church and do not twist the Scriptures into saying sun-day is the Lord's Day, IT IS NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURES AS SUCH!
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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TerryD wrote:... If John intended to say the First Day of the Week, that's what he would have said. He intended to say "the Lord's Day". I understood that just fine. Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,957
Location: TX
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:... If John intended to say the First Day of the Week, that's what he would have said. He intended to say "the Lord's Day". I understood that just fine. Yep, then he went on to discribe the Day of the Lord (the Lord's Day) in detail which has nothing to do with your RCC sun-day weekly worship or their early fathers.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,957
Location: TX
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Hey Steve, I never heard back from rockinga about this so evidently he did not go for it so why don't you give it a try. www.emetministries.com/5000_Cash_Reward.htmMake sure you let us know.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Sonny35 wrote:stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:... If John intended to say the First Day of the Week, that's what he would have said. He intended to say "the Lord's Day". I understood that just fine. Yep, then he went on to discribe the Day of the Lord (the Lord's Day) in detail which has nothing to do with your RCC sun-day weekly worship or their early fathers. Scripture please.
Where does John describe the Day of the Lord in the book of Revelation?
Show us.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Sonny35 wrote:From where is the Lord's Day referenced in the "Scriptures" as the first day of the week? ... I think we have been over this before.
The term "the Lord's Day" is used only once in scripture.
It is not defined except to say that John "was in the Spirit" on the Lord’s Day. (Rev. 1:10) written 90 AD
However...
In early church writing, the term "the Lord's Day" is used frequently.
From these writings we have a working definition.
The Lord's Day is the day of our Lord's resurrection.
The Lord's Day is the day following the sabbath.
The Lord's Day is the first day of the week.
The Lord's Day is the first day of creation.
The Lord's Day is Sunday.
All this written centuries before the RCC made rest on the sabbath unlawful.
So, what was John saying? I was worshipping God in the Spirit on Sunday...
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,957
Location: TX
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stevelundgren wrote:Sonny35 wrote:From where is the Lord's Day referenced in the "Scriptures" as the first day of the week? ... I think we have been over this before.
The term "the Lord's Day" is used only once in scripture.
It is not defined except to say that John "was in the Spirit" on the Lord’s Day. (Rev. 1:10) written 90 AD
However...
In early church writing, the term "the Lord's Day" is used frequently.
From these writings we have a working definition.
The Lord's Day is the day of our Lord's resurrection.
The Lord's Day is the day following the sabbath.
The Lord's Day is the first day of the week.
The Lord's Day is the first day of creation.
The Lord's Day is Sunday.
All this written centuries before the RCC made rest on the sabbath unlawful.
So, what was John saying? I was worshipping God in the Spirit on Sunday...
"However...", however nothing, that is what you have, nothing but the "writings" of early CATHOLIC church fathers and that is it. There is NOT one "Scripture" to back up your Lord's Day as sun-day claim. The Lord's Day IS clearly defined in the Scriptures, it is the Day of the Lord, any 5 yr old can understand that. The 1st day of the week, is the 1st day or the week, nothing more, nothing less THROUGHOUT THE SCRIPTURES! The 1st day of the week follows the Lord's Holy 7th day Sabbath as do the other 5 days. The 1st day of the week is never called the Lord's day throughout the Scriptures. The 1st day is the 1st day of creation, the 7th Day is the Day the Lord created and said to be a Holy day. The 1st day of the week is only your day of worship because the early RCC fathers wrote it was to be and then later it is passed into law that it is what you follow. It is understandable that for you sun-day is the day you want it to be and the day it has to be for you, but that does not make it the Lord's day. Only the Scripture could make it so and they DO NOT. It is only so through your early Catholic church fathers writings,and the law of the RCC, NOTHING FROM SCRIPTURES. It is also understandable that you can not give up your on your claim of Rev.1:10 being a sun-day but without Scriptures and only the quotes of early Catholic church fathers and RCC law does not make it so. "So what was John saying? I was worshiping God in the spirit on Sunday..." SAY WHAT??? Don't you think that is stretching it a little to far Steve??? Please!!! Rev.1:10, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day and heard...." and you say "I was worshiping God in the spirit on Sunday..." I mean come ON Steve, REALLY!!! We realize you are desperate but thats over the top, WAY over the top!!! Talk about perverting the Scriptures,WOW!! Worst example I have ever seen!!!! But I suppose that is to be expected, your RCC even changed the Lord's Ten Commandments so as to make their 1st day presentable as the Lord's day. Sad indeed that you chose to follow them instead of Scriptures.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Sonny35 wrote:"However...", however nothing, that is what you have, nothing but the "writings" of early CATHOLIC church fathers and that is it... When did the church become the "early CATHOLIC church"?
Was the "early CATHOLIC church" really the "CATHOLIC church" at all?
When did this happen?
Who were the "early CATHOLIC church fathers"?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,957
Location: TX
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stevelundgren wrote:Sonny35 wrote:"However...", however nothing, that is what you have, nothing but the "writings" of early CATHOLIC church fathers and that is it... When did the church become the "early CATHOLIC church"?
Was the "early CATHOLIC church" really the "CATHOLIC church" at all?
When did this happen?
Who were the "early CATHOLIC church fathers"?
Well I see it is as usual, you can't use Scriptures for any of your sun-day false claims as there are none so since the ECCF's are you only hope it's back to them.   FYI, www.atruechurch.info/earlychurchfathers.html
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:... If John intended to say the First Day of the Week, that's what he would have said. He intended to say "the Lord's Day". I understood that just fine. You seem to be confusing the "the Lord's Day" with the first day of the week.
Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:Sonny35 wrote:stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:... If John intended to say the First Day of the Week, that's what he would have said. He intended to say "the Lord's Day". I understood that just fine. Yep, then he went on to discribe the Day of the Lord (the Lord's Day) in detail which has nothing to do with your RCC sun-day weekly worship or their early fathers. Scripture please.
Where does John describe the Day of the Lord in the book of Revelation?
Show us.
Where does John describe the first day of the week in the book of Revelation?"If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:Sonny35 wrote:From where is the Lord's Day referenced in the "Scriptures" as the first day of the week? ... I think we have been over this before.
The term "the Lord's Day" is used only once in scripture.
It is not defined except to say that John "was in the Spirit" on the Lord’s Day. (Rev. 1:10) written 90 AD
However...
In early church writing, the term "the Lord's Day" is used frequently.
From these writings we have a working definition.
The Lord's Day is the day of our Lord's resurrection.
The Lord's Day is the day following the sabbath.
The Lord's Day is the first day of the week.
The Lord's Day is the first day of creation.
The Lord's Day is Sunday.
All this written centuries before the RCC made rest on the sabbath unlawful.
So, what was John saying? I was worshipping God in the Spirit on Sunday...
John "was in the Spirit", he was having an out of body experience. He was experiencing the coming of the Lord's Day. That's what the book is all about. Not worshiping on Sunday."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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