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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Sonny35 wrote:stevelundgren wrote:Sonny35 wrote:... Am I now to expect another sarcastic remark???? Certainly. I wouldn't want to disappoint you. As I said, you can not help yourself so I forgive you as I would anyone with a mental condition. Best take the plank out of your own eye before helping me with my speck.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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"So now I shall go back to my unsweet unloveable person and discuss religious differences with y'all." WHY?Sonny35 wrote:
Years ago when I was yet a lutheran I worked side by side with a couple of Sabbatarians, we worked together as friends. Also one of my life time close friends is a Catholic. My son was not a Sabbath keeper and no parent and son could be closer than we were nor is my daughter a Sabbath keeper and no parent and daughter could be closer than we are. (and your past comment about not keeping Xmass destroying families was totally wrong)
After my dad was killed and mom and I moved to town my cousin and I became as brothers, we both grew up as lutherans, I now keep the Sabbath and he still keeps sunday and we are still as brothers.
This is a religious forum, we discuss religion, we get upset with each other over religion, I call you names and some of you call me names and it would probably be the same if we were to argue over politics, but one does not let his religious differences bleed over into his work (and I have had some of that kind on my projects) or his social life and I wonder about your, "That may be the best I can do for you. (all things considered)", am I to sense maybe a little bit of a "grudge" in that?
So now I shall go back to my unsweet unloveable person and discuss religious differences with y'all.(and I hope Sarge gets better for his own well being and also so he can join back in)
Am I now to expect another sarcastic remark????
Why do you find it impossible to be so sweet and lovable at other times!?!
Do you really think that is how Jesus would handle things?
If we were on a political forum, I would expect to get the attitude, but we are not there. If you can manage to control your darker impulses in the workplace, it should be a walk in the park to act civil here. I could actually enjoy conversing with THIS version of sonny35!Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 9/9/2008 Posts: 2,980
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Sonny wrote:Hey Sarge, hope it's not serious although when we get older what was not can become so. A few years back I had such a bad cold I went to the Doc, when I told him I had never felt so rotten from a cold, his response was, "you have never been so old". Anyway get well and back in the saddle.
sonny
ROFL! Thanks Sonny! That's pretty funny.
I heard a similar one a long time ago.
Doc, its hurts when I raise my arm over my head. Doc says, well then don't raise your arm over your head!
Here's another...
One day Jack and Andy were arguing as to whether Jesus was White or Black. As best friends they decided to go fishing and went on a camping trip one weekend. Unfortunately they got into a terrible car accident on the way and both died instantly. As a result they both arrived at the pearly gates at the same exact time. On their arrival they were met by St Peter and were immediately introduced to Jesus. St Peter announced their entry and introduced them to the Lord. Lord, this is Jack and Andy at which the Lord replied...Buenos Dias!
I'm actually feeling a little better tonight. I haven't been sleeping well and I think I've been over doing some things and not eating regularly but with some rest I'll live. And thank for your concern with my health Sonny, I appreciate it!
The Religious Forums have always been a volatile place. I know we don't always agree on doctrine and we are far apart in our individual interpretations of scripture but I think perhaps if we all would try to do a little better in how we react to each other, that includes me the most, progress could be possible. After all, isn't "how we react" what really matters in the end? I think so and will try harder in the future. I do apologize to you and everyone and hope that with a little effort things should get better for everyone.
Galatians 3: 13-26
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
EDITED: 1/31/2012, 5:54pm
Sarge
~ Insults Should Be Written In Sand ~ Compliments Should Be Carved In Stone ~
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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Acts 17
New International Version
In Athens
16 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. 18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. 19 Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.” 21 (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)
22 Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”
32 When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.” 33 At that, Paul left the Council. 34 Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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Message was deleted by User. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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Matthew 26
New International Version
55 In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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Luke 19
New International Version
45 When Jesus entered the temple courts, he began to drive out those who were selling.
46 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be a house of prayer’; but you have made it ‘a den of robbers.’”
47 Every day he was teaching at the temple. But the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the leaders among the people were trying to kill him. 48 Yet they could not find any way to do it, because all the people hung on his words. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/9/2008 Posts: 2,980
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John 5:16-18
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
~ Insults Should Be Written In Sand ~ Compliments Should Be Carved In Stone ~
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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Another point of view on pretending to observe the Sabbath. There is a difference in wanting to be Jewish and in wanting to be considered Jewish. The latter is the type that has caused so many problems for actual Nazarenes. Those responsible strive to create, whether knowingly or not, little insulae where they can be considered Jewish within the greater network of Christianity. Yet they are far from anything remotely Jewish. Even after 20 years or so of being in the “Messianic Jewish Movement” they remain thinly veiled Evangelicals, usually southern Baptists doting on Paul of Tarsus. In addition to this they accept recent Christian traditions as authoritative and their Hellenistic theological traditions as interpretive of Scripture. Outwardly they made the jump to “looking Jewish,” but theologically they are a strange hybrid in a yarmelke.
This has been said on this site before (an indeed lamented even by the guilty), so it must be clarified here that to repeat this is not the purpose of this article. The purpose is to point out a clear distinction between the very visible Messianic Jewish Movement and that which is genuinely emerging within Israel. The difference is not small. It is the same difference between an ugly cocoon and a beautiful butterfly.
The goal of Nazarene Judaism, as it may best be called, is not to be Jewish. Jewish is taken for granted, for Nazarenes are Jews within Jewry who believe and know that Jesus is God with Us. Therefore how can “being Jewish” be the goal? The goal of life, as all scripture teaches, is to be righteous with God. For a Jew to dwell on how to be Jewish is like a child dwelling on taking its first step before intending to sit the rest of its life.
God plainly declared the things of the Torah to be for our care and justice on earth. But above all he warned us through Moses at Horeb to “keep to thy souls.” The Torah was to form a base so that society could be stable, healthy and just. In such an environment mankind was free to progress spiritually and walk with God in much deeper ways than mere observances. We were to be a witness to the Nations. God desired a deep relationship with all people. If we had been doing our job as good witnesses, there should actually be very little distinctions (save cultural) between Jews and non-Jews.
Plainly put, for someone to make “being Jewish” the goal and mantra of their life is anemic. One must never call attention to that which is plainly evident. Therefore drum-beating Jewishness strikes Jews as suspicious. It is in such a goal that the Messianic Jewish Movement is found to be intrinsically pale, incredibly unimaginative, and so unfulfilling. It is in its mantra that it has become embarrassing. Such being the case it is best to dispose of both it and the name so that there can be no confusion between Nazarene Jews who strive to righteousness with God, and with all others. That means those who seek the mantle of being Jewish outwardly but inwardly they remain sectarian Christians with theological and eschatological beliefs little older than 100 years, many of them considered dangerous and even false by other denominations of Christianity. Nazarene JudaismNever argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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There are a number of denominations that call themselves the remnant spoken of in the Bible. None of these "remnants" totally agree with each other even though each one professes to be the only route to Jesus Christ, obviously they can't all be correct. However, Jewish born believers hold a somewhat different view of these "remnants."
They aren't particularly fond of Paul either, TerryD should like this "remnant."
God is preparing the world for the second coming. It must start with Israel, and as such it must start with Nazarenes. The calling of Elijah is upon us all. Its purpose is to return people to the scriptures and prepare them for the great and dreadful day of the LORD. Are those who believe in a homeboy rabbi Jesus ready to face the Spirit of God looking upon them from his eyes?
It must start here. Only Israel can lead the way this time and finish the job. Therefore it is best that the movement within Judaism to reveal that Jesus is the Messiah distinguish itself from so-called Messianic Judaism in name and substance. This means more than drop the name of the “fad” and the 13 year old bar mitzvah theologians. It means lead the way spiritually and scripturally. It means drop the “homeboy” approach to Jesus, the R. Yeshua rubbish. It means forget the concoctions of the “Nation void of understanding.” This means forget the Azuzu Street spiritualism that became Christianize to be the Assembly of God and Southern Baptists. It means forget its theology. It means forget its pseudo-scholars who look more like Book Club members or a literary society debating the latest published works. It means read the Scripture, study them and the Talmud. It also means forget the Trinities and Gnostic metaphorizing. Above all it means dwell on God, as he revealed himself in scripture; pray humbly to him daily for wisdom.
The Scriptures of life teach us who walked amongst us and why. Stand as a Jew today, within Jewry, and understand that the Messiah has come. You can do no less than they 2,000 years ago. Study the scripture and begin to grow in God’s knowledge of just what everything has been about. You’ve seen the Scriptures revealed by a tremendous act of God. The Scriptures have so much to reveal to us, and then we in turn to the Nations.
It’s time for Nazarenes to be the butterfly and fly away from an ugly and— now that you are gone— an empty shell. Let that be the leftover of the Messianic Jewish Movement-- its impolitic “rebbes,” Church bashers, haranguing blog habitués, pseudo-scholars and Baptist rabbis have earned that much. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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This is just a small portion of an article that is claimed to be written by a former Sabbath keeper. It deals directly with the claim that the custom of Jesus and Paul demonstrate Sabbath observance that should be followed. These aren't my words, but this portion seems correct in keeping with my belief for the most part.http://www.ukapologetics.net/sabbath.html
Sabbath-keepers like to point out that Paul often went to the synagogue, or to some other Jewish meeting, on the Sabbath during his missionary journeys (e.g., Acts 13:14,42-44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4). “We should follow his example of Sabbath-observance,” they say. However, it became obvious to me that Paul was targeting Jewish meeting places as a missionary strategy, not because he felt bound to keep the day holy (cf. 1 Cor. 9:19-20). There, on any Sabbath, Paul had a ready-made audience of people who were acquainted with the Old Testament Scriptures, which predicted Messiah's coming, death and resurrection. If some really want to follow Paul's example in this matter, they need to go to the nearest Jewish synagogue next Sabbath, and preach Jesus! (9)
But, what did Paul specifically teach about the Sabbath? He said, “ ... let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ” (Col. 2:16-17). In that statement, he covers three kinds of Jewish holy days: yearly religious festivals, monthly new moons, and the weekly Sabbaths. All these foreshadowed Christ, he says; therefore, we should not allow anyone to judge us in regard to these things. They are no longer an issue. Jesus is the great Reality; we need not be concerned about symbols - we have him!
Seventh-day scholars sometimes interpret the “sabbaths” of Colossians 2:16-17 as being yearly sabbaths, i.e., the annual religious festivals. However, Paul already mentioned those in the passage. It would be senseless repetition for him to mention them again. Obviously, by “sabbaths” (NKJ) or “a Sabbath day” (NIV) he means the weekly Sabbath. Bacchiocchi himself acknowledged that in From Sabbath to Sunday.
In a later book, The Sabbath in the New Testament, he reverted to the idea that the sabbaths Paul mentions are the yearly festivals. Evidently he realized that, if the weekly Sabbath was included in Colossians 2:16-17, then it has no more binding force for Christians than the monthly new moon celebrations or Jewish holy days. Oddly enough, Bacchiocchi eventually wrote God’s Festivals in Scripture and History, a book that recommends the keeping the annual holy days! It seems to me that Bacchiocchi’s rejection of the plain sense of Colossians 2:16-17 put him into a rather unstable position, and so he continued to shift the other “pieces of the interpretive puzzle” for a while, until he felt more comfortable.
I know how that feels! I finally had to conclude that I had been wrong about the Sabbath being a moral obligation for Christians. It was an Old Covenant ceremonial practice (a “shadow”) that was no longer required. That explains why Sabbath-keeping is not spoken of as a duty for Christians to obey in the New Testament.
Bacchiocchi and others argue that since it was mentioned in the Gospels, it therefore must be regarded as a Christian duty. But, this overlooks the fact that the Gospels often record the common Jewish practices of our Lord and his disciples, who were under the Old Covenant Law. The binding force of that Law came to an end, legally, at the Cross, when the shedding of Jesus’ blood formally instituted the New Covenant (Eph.11-18; Luke 22:19-20); but, it took a while for Jewish disciples to realize that. So, for example, they continued to participate in Temple worship—which, like the Sabbath, foreshadowed Christ and was not a Christian duty (cf. Acts 2:46; 3:1; Heb.10:1-22). But, no Christian would argue that we ought to rebuild the Temple and reinstitute sacrifices!Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,957
Location: TX
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Intangible wrote:This is just a small portion of an article that is claimed to be written by a former Sabbath keeper. It deals directly with the claim that the custom of Jesus and Paul demonstrate Sabbath observance that should be followed. These aren't my words, but this portion seems correct in keeping with my belief for the most part.http://www.ukapologetics.net/sabbath.html
Sabbath-keepers like to point out that Paul often went to the synagogue, or to some other Jewish meeting, on the Sabbath during his missionary journeys (e.g., Acts 13:14,42-44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4). “We should follow his example of Sabbath-observance,” they say. However, it became obvious to me that Paul was targeting Jewish meeting places as a missionary strategy, not because he felt bound to keep the day holy (cf. 1 Cor. 9:19-20). There, on any Sabbath, Paul had a ready-made audience of people who were acquainted with the Old Testament Scriptures, which predicted Messiah's coming, death and resurrection. If some really want to follow Paul's example in this matter, they need to go to the nearest Jewish synagogue next Sabbath, and preach Jesus! (9)
But, what did Paul specifically teach about the Sabbath? He said, “ ... let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ” (Col. 2:16-17). In that statement, he covers three kinds of Jewish holy days: yearly religious festivals, monthly new moons, and the weekly Sabbaths. All these foreshadowed Christ, he says; therefore, we should not allow anyone to judge us in regard to these things. They are no longer an issue. Jesus is the great Reality; we need not be concerned about symbols - we have him!
Seventh-day scholars sometimes interpret the “sabbaths” of Colossians 2:16-17 as being yearly sabbaths, i.e., the annual religious festivals. However, Paul already mentioned those in the passage. It would be senseless repetition for him to mention them again. Obviously, by “sabbaths” (NKJ) or “a Sabbath day” (NIV) he means the weekly Sabbath. Bacchiocchi himself acknowledged that in From Sabbath to Sunday.
In a later book, The Sabbath in the New Testament, he reverted to the idea that the sabbaths Paul mentions are the yearly festivals. Evidently he realized that, if the weekly Sabbath was included in Colossians 2:16-17, then it has no more binding force for Christians than the monthly new moon celebrations or Jewish holy days. Oddly enough, Bacchiocchi eventually wrote God’s Festivals in Scripture and History, a book that recommends the keeping the annual holy days! It seems to me that Bacchiocchi’s rejection of the plain sense of Colossians 2:16-17 put him into a rather unstable position, and so he continued to shift the other “pieces of the interpretive puzzle” for a while, until he felt more comfortable.
I know how that feels! I finally had to conclude that I had been wrong about the Sabbath being a moral obligation for Christians. It was an Old Covenant ceremonial practice (a “shadow”) that was no longer required. That explains why Sabbath-keeping is not spoken of as a duty for Christians to obey in the New Testament.
Bacchiocchi and others argue that since it was mentioned in the Gospels, it therefore must be regarded as a Christian duty. But, this overlooks the fact that the Gospels often record the common Jewish practices of our Lord and his disciples, who were under the Old Covenant Law. The binding force of that Law came to an end, legally, at the Cross, when the shedding of Jesus’ blood formally instituted the New Covenant (Eph.11-18; Luke 22:19-20); but, it took a while for Jewish disciples to realize that. So, for example, they continued to participate in Temple worship—which, like the Sabbath, foreshadowed Christ and was not a Christian duty (cf. Acts 2:46; 3:1; Heb.10:1-22). But, no Christian would argue that we ought to rebuild the Temple and reinstitute sacrifices! I see you are as sarge, posting and then replying to yourself, kinda wonder about you guys. Maybe such behavior is catching?? 
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