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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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This post below was largely overlooked on the topic: Law and Commandments - Defining the Terms
Being this seems rather significant, I thought it warranted its own thread.
This also follows my train of thought from the thread titled: God's Law and Human Conscience
The fact that there exists God's "universal" law which pre-exists the law of God given to Israel through Moses.
For instance, Cain murdered his brother Abel. This was a violation of God’s law. But the law had not yet been given.
What do we call this overarching law or moral/ethical framework that existed before the law of Moses and still exists in the dispensation of Grace?
The term God's "universal" law seems to differentiate it from the law of Moses.
Perhaps this is the pre-existant law that the sabbatarians confuse with Mosaic law, thinking that it was the law of Moses present at the beginning.
The example of the murder of Abel relating to the Ten Commandments would explain the confusion.
Other Mosaic commandments, like the sabbath would then be superimposed on the beginning of time.
Even though there is no evidence of anyone observing the sabbath until it was introduced in Exodus chapter 16.
My thesis statement is this. I posit that there exists God's "universal" law. This law is pre-existant to Mosaic law and serves as an overarching law or moral/ethical framework from the beginning of time into this age of Grace.
This law resides in human conscience telling us right from wrong at a young age. We are left to embrace or reject this God-given indicator of right and wrong. In the age of Grace it is said that God would write his laws on our hearts. Since we are not under the law of Moses, this law would be God's "universal" law.
What laws were violated resulting in the global flood that destroyed "all life" on the planet? Noah was found righteous in God's eyes. By what standard?
There you have it. I am either onto something big, or completely off the map. This will serve as a place to collect thoughts on the subject. Thanks for reading.
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What is God’s law?
In the study today of Romans chapters 7 and 8, the term "God’s law" came up.
A search in the NIV Bible revealed that it is only found one other place besides what we were studying.
This is significant because the Apostle Paul states clearly that we are not under law.
Therefore, this use of God's law cannot be in reference to the law given by God to Israel through Moses.
Romans 7:22
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
Romans 7:25
Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law,
but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Romans 8:7
the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law
(though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law),
so as to win those not having the law.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Case Study - Cornelius
Cornelius and his family are described as "devout and God-fearing".
He gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly.
An angel appeared to him and said,
"Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God."
Cornelius was a Roman gentile. As such was living outside of Mosaic law.
Yet he is described as "devout and God-fearing".
Though Cornelius could not comply with Mosaic law, he was compliant with "God's law".
Acts 10:1- 8
At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment.
2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly.
3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!”
4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.
The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.
5 Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”
7 When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier who was one of his attendants. 8 He told them everything that had happened and sent them to Joppa.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Case Study - God-fearing Gentiles
I find these distinctions interesting.
- Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles
- Jews and God-fearing Greeks
Note: "fear" in these instances indicates a healthy reverence.
In the case of Cornelius and these other God-fearing Gentiles,
God was reaching out to these people with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So, even though their respect for God was notable, they were in need of something more.
These are three examples of that. (including Cornelius)
Acts 13:26
“Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles,
it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
Acts 17:4
Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas,
as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.
Acts 17:17
So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks,
as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Case Study - The fear of God in the New Testament
In the case of the crimnal on the cross, it is not clear whether he is jewish or not.
But interesting to note that he chides the other criminal with the words, "Don’t you fear God... ?"
Note: "fear of God" in these instances indicates a healthy reverence.
Luke 23:40
But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said,
“since you are under the same sentence?
Romans 3:18-19
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law,
so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
2 Corinthians 5:11
Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men.
What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.
1 Peter 2:17
Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers,
fear God, honor the king.
Revelation 14:7
He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory,
because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens,
the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Case Study - The fear of God in the Old Testament - Before the law of Moses
The fear of God before the law of Moses indicates that some outside the patriarchs were knowledgeable and reverent toward God.
Note: "fear of God" in these instances indicates a healthy reverence.
Genesis 20:11
Abraham replied, “I said to myself, ‘There is surely no fear of God in this place,
and they will kill me because of my wife.’
Genesis 22:12
“Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him.
Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
Genesis 42:18
On the third day, Joseph said to them, “Do this and you will live, for I fear God:
Exodus 1:17, 21
The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do;
they let the boys live...
And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.
Exodus 9:29-30
Moses replied, “When I have gone out of the city, I will spread out my hands in prayer to the LORD.
The thunder will stop and there will be no more hail, so you may know that the earth is the LORD’s.
But I know that you and your officials still do not fear the LORD God.”
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Case Study - The fear of God and the Unjust Judge
In this parable, Jesus describes the unjust judge as neither fearing God nor caring about men.
Note: "fear of God" in these instances indicates a healthy reverence.
Luke 18:1- 8
Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up.
2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared about men.
3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’
4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care about men,
5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually wear me out with her coming!’”
6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says.
7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night?
Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly.
However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Case Study - Reverence for God
A reverence for the Lord outside of judaism is indicated in these verses to and about gentiles.
Note the list in Revelation 11:18.
"... your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great..."
2 Corinthians 7:1
Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that
contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
Colossians 3:22
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it,
not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor,
but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.
Titus 2:3
Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live,
not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.
1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially,
live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.
1 Peter 3:2
when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.
Revelation 11:18
The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great— and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:
Case Study - God-fearing Gentiles
I find these distinctions interesting.
- Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles
- Jews and God-fearing Greeks
Note: "fear" in these instances indicates a healthy reverence.
In the case of Cornelius and these other God-fearing Gentiles,
God was reaching out to these people with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So, even though their respect for God was notable, they were in need of something more.
These are three examples of that. (including Cornelius)
Acts 13:26
“Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles,
it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
Act 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
Nothing about gentiles. Paul was speaking in the synagogue in Antioch. In YOUR own words posed many times, gentiles weren't allowed in the synagogue."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Case Study - The knowledge of God
Here's a great example of how this works.
Humankind is here shown to be without excuse since God has made himself
known to all with evidence that is plain to see.
However, humankind has chosen to reject this knowledge.
Romans 1:18-20
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men
who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them,
because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—
his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made,
so that men are without excuse.
Romans 1:28
Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God,
he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:
Case Study - God-fearing Gentiles
I find these distinctions interesting.
- Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles
- Jews and God-fearing Greeks
Note: "fear" in these instances indicates a healthy reverence.
In the case of Cornelius and these other God-fearing Gentiles,
God was reaching out to these people with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So, even though their respect for God was notable, they were in need of something more.
These are three examples of that. (including Cornelius)
Acts 13:26
“Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles,
it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
Act 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
Nothing about gentiles. Paul was speaking in the synagogue in Antioch. In YOUR own words posed many times, gentiles weren't allowed in the synagogue. What a ridiculous thing for you to say in an attempt to discredit me. (your only goal here?)
Everyone is either a jew or a gentile. And you say, "Nothing about gentiles."
Who is being described as "children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God"
The "children of the stock of Abraham" are jews. What about the others? Who are they if they aren't jews?
Gentiles were not free to enter synagogues of their own free will.
They had to be taken through a process to be accepted into a synagogue.
Why are you creating a straw man out of such a petty detail?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:
Case Study - God-fearing Gentiles
I find these distinctions interesting.
- Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles
- Jews and God-fearing Greeks
Note: "fear" in these instances indicates a healthy reverence.
In the case of Cornelius and these other God-fearing Gentiles,
God was reaching out to these people with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So, even though their respect for God was notable, they were in need of something more.
These are three examples of that. (including Cornelius)
Acts 13:26
“Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles,
it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
Acts 17:4
Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas,
as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.
Act 17:4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
Act 17:5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
devout 4576 sebomai {seb'-om-ahee}
middle voice of an apparently primary verb; TDNT - 7:169,1010; v
AV - worship 6, devout 3, religious 1; 10
1) to revere, to worship
Greek 1672 Hellen {hel'-lane}
from 1671; TDNT - 2:504,227; n m
AV - Greek 20, Gentile 7; 27
1) a Greek either by nationality, whether a native of the main land or of the Greek islands or colonies 2) in a wider sense the name embraces all nations not Jews that made the language, customs, and learning of the Greeks their own; the primary reference is to a difference of religion and worship
Chief Chiefs of Asia
"Asiarchs," the title given to certain wealthy persons annually
appointed to preside over the religious festivals and games in
the various cities of proconsular Asia (Acts 19:31). Some of
these officials appear to have been Paul's friends.
These Greeks had their own religion and god ."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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TerryD wrote:... These Greeks had their own religion and god. Hmm...
Is that why they are described as "God-fearing Greeks"?
Another straw man argument.
Don't you have anything intelligent to say about this subject?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:
Case Study - God-fearing Gentiles
I find these distinctions interesting.
- Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles
- Jews and God-fearing Greeks
Note: "fear" in these instances indicates a healthy reverence.
In the case of Cornelius and these other God-fearing Gentiles,
God was reaching out to these people with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So, even though their respect for God was notable, they were in need of something more.
These are three examples of that. (including Cornelius)
Acts 13:26
“Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles,
it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
Acts 17:4
Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas,
as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.
Acts 17:17
So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks,
as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.
Act 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
Act 17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
Act 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Act 17:19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
Act 17:20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
Act 17:21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
Act 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Again, in a synagogue. Again, no mention of God-fearing Gentiles. They weren't allowied in the synagogue according to you. Again, they had their own god."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:... These Greeks had their own religion and god. Hmm...
Is that why they are described as "God-fearing Greeks"?
Another straw man argument.
Don't you have anything intelligent to say about this subject?
KJV says devout Greeks. They were devout to their god."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:... These Greeks had their own religion and god. Hmm...
Is that why they are described as "God-fearing Greeks"?
Another straw man argument.
Don't you have anything intelligent to say about this subject? KJV says devout Greeks. They were devout to their god. Wow.
I guess you will have to explain what those pagan Greeks were doing in a Jewish synagogue.
That's pretty far-fetched.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:
Case Study - God-fearing Gentiles
I find these distinctions interesting.
- Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles
- Jews and God-fearing Greeks
Note: "fear" in these instances indicates a healthy reverence.
In the case of Cornelius and these other God-fearing Gentiles,
God was reaching out to these people with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So, even though their respect for God was notable, they were in need of something more.
These are three examples of that. (including Cornelius)
Acts 13:26
“Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles,
it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
Acts 17:4
Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas,
as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.
Acts 17:17
So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks,
as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.
Act 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
Act 17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
Act 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Act 17:19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
Act 17:20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
Act 17:21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
Act 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Again, in a synagogue. Again, no mention of God-fearing Gentiles. They weren't allowied in the synagogue according to you. Again, they had their own god. That's not correct.
Again, in a synagogue. - Yes.
Again, no mention of God-fearing Gentiles. - "Greeks" means gentiles.
"Jews and devout persons" means the devout persons weren't jews, which means they were gentiles.
They weren't allowied in the synagogue according to you. - I explained that "they" were.
Again, they had their own god. - What were these pagans doing in a jewish synagogue?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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In Romans chapters 7 and 8, "God’s law" cannot mean
the law God gave to Israel through Moses.
Back to the beginning. These were the scriptures that pointed the way to understanding how to define "God's law".
Romans chapter 7 is loaded with the word "law". And it is used to describe many different things.
Romans 7:22
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
Romans 7:25
Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law,
but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Romans 8:7
the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
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Again, since the Apostle Paul is so clear on the fact that we are not under Mosaic law,
the question of what he is promoting here is a glaring issue.
How can the Apostle to the gentiles say:
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known,
to which the Law and the Prophets testify. - Romans 3:21
And then say:
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; - Romans 7:22
How can the Apostle to the gentiles say:
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then,
and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. - Galatians 5:1
And then say:
Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law,
but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. - Romans 7:25
How can the Apostle to the gentiles say:
Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. - Galatians 3:25
And then say:
the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. - Romans 8:7
Therefore, the Apostle Paul's reference to "God's law" cannot mean the law God gave to Israel through Moses.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:... These Greeks had their own religion and god. Hmm...
Is that why they are described as "God-fearing Greeks"?
Another straw man argument.
Don't you have anything intelligent to say about this subject? KJV says devout Greeks. They were devout to their god. Wow.
I guess you will have to explain what those pagan Greeks were doing in a Jewish synagogue.
That's pretty far-fetched.
They were not in the synagogue. Like you said, they were not welcome there. "If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:TerryD wrote:stevelundgren wrote:
Case Study - God-fearing Gentiles
I find these distinctions interesting.
- Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles
- Jews and God-fearing Greeks
Note: "fear" in these instances indicates a healthy reverence.
In the case of Cornelius and these other God-fearing Gentiles,
God was reaching out to these people with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So, even though their respect for God was notable, they were in need of something more.
These are three examples of that. (including Cornelius)
Acts 13:26
“Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles,
it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
Acts 17:4
Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas,
as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.
Acts 17:17
So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks,
as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.
Act 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
Act 17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
Act 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Act 17:19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
Act 17:20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
Act 17:21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
Act 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Again, in a synagogue. Again, no mention of God-fearing Gentiles. They weren't allowied in the synagogue according to you. Again, they had their own god. That's not correct.
Again, in a synagogue. - Yes.
Again, no mention of God-fearing Gentiles. - "Greeks" means gentiles.
"Jews and devout persons" means the devout persons weren't jews, which means they were gentiles.
They weren't allowied in the synagogue according to you. - I explained that "they" were.
Again, they had their own god. - What were these pagans doing in a jewish synagogue?
Jews were in the synagogue. Jews and Christian Jews. Pagans were in the market.
No mention of Greeks in KJV. I've believed from my start here that the NIV has an agenda.
Devout persons Christian Jews.
You also explained elsewhere that they weren't.
They weren't in the synagogue."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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stevelundgren wrote:
In Romans chapters 7 and 8, "God’s law" cannot mean
the law God gave to Israel through Moses.
Back to the beginning. These were the scriptures that pointed the way to understanding how to define "God's law".
Romans chapter 7 is loaded with the word "law". And it is used to describe many different things.
Romans 7:22
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
Romans 7:25
Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law,
but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Romans 8:7
the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
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Again, since the Apostle Paul is so clear on the fact that we are not under Mosaic law,
the question of what he is promoting here is a glaring issue.
How can the Apostle to the gentiles say:
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known,
to which the Law and the Prophets testify. - Romans 3:21
And then say:
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; - Romans 7:22
How can the Apostle to the gentiles say:
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then,
and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. - Galatians 5:1
And then say:
Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law,
but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. - Romans 7:25
How can the Apostle to the gentiles say:
Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. - Galatians 3:25
And then say:
the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. - Romans 8:7
Therefore, the Apostle Paul's reference to "God's law" cannot mean the law God gave to Israel through Moses.
1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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