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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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So here we again observe Jehovah's Chief Vindicator, the glorified Jesus Christ, in action. Revelation 20:1-3.
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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The Bible often speaks of God doing things when he actually did them through one or more angels. For instance, Genesis 1:1 tells us: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Were that all that the Bible said about the origin of the universe, we would conclude that God created it directly, as if with his own hands. The Christian Greek Scriptures, however, enlarge our understanding. We read: "By means of [the Son of God] all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible...All other things have been created through him and for him." Colossians 1:16, 17] Other texts confirm the Son's role in creating the universe. [John 1:3, 10 Hebrews 1:1, 2] Still, this role was as a workman subordinate to Jehovah, who originated, empowered, and directed creation.--Psalms 19:1.
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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John 8:58-59
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself,
slipping away from the temple grounds.
Exodus 3:13-14
Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them,
‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me,
‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.
This is what you are to say to the Israelites:
‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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According to the King James Version rendering at Exodus 3:13, 14, Moses asked: "When I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? What shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, This shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." About this text, Hebrew text with English translation and exposition, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz says that in the phrase "I am that I am...the emphasis on the active manifestation of the Divine existence." Its use as a title or name for God was therefore appropriate because by delivering them from Egyptian bondage, God was about to manifest his existence in behalf of his people in an outstanding way. Hertz says that "most moderns follow Rashi [a renowned medieval French Bible and Talmud commentator] in rendering 'I will be what I will be." This agrees with the rendering of the New World Translation, which reads: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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At John 8:58, once again the king James Version has Jesus using the expression "I am" in connection with himself, saying, "Before Abraham was, I am." But here the expression is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or title but simply as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Thus, according to the New World Translation, the more correct rendering of John 8:58 is: "Before Abraham came into existence, I have been." Clearly, no Scriptural basis exists for the claim that Jesus is the same as Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures. Even the teacher's manual previously quoted admits: "That Jesus existed before his birth in Bethlehem does not in itself prove He was God." In fact, this is what the Bible teaches. In his prehuman existence, Jesus was "a god," or divine one, but not the God, the almighty God Jehovah.--John 1:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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The Hebrew Scriptures are consistently clear in showing that there is but one Almighty God, the Creator of all things and the Most High, whose name is Jehovah. [Ge 17:1; Isa 45:18; Ps 83:18] For that reason Moses could say to the nation of Israel: "Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force." [De 6:4, 5] The Christian Greek Scriptures do not contradict this teaching that had been accepted and believed by God's servants for thousands of years, but instead they support it. [Mr 12:29; Ro 3:29, 30; 1Co 8:6; Ep 4:4-6; 1Ti 2:5] Jesus Christ himself said, "The Father is greater than I am" and referred to the Father as his God, the only true God." [Joh 14:28; 17:3; 20:17; Mr 15:34; Re 1:1; 3:12] On numerous occasions Jesus expressed his inferiority and subordination to his Father. [Mt 4:9, 10; 20:23; lU 22:41, 42; JOH 5:19; 8:42; 13:16] Even after Jesus' ascension into heaven his apostles continued to present the same picture.--1Co 11:3; 15:20, 24-28; 1Pe 1:3; 1Jo 2:1; 4:9, 10. These facts give solid support to a translation such as "the Word was a god" at John 1:1.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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jnk309 wrote:The Hebrew Scriptures are consistently clear in showing that there is but one Almighty God, the Creator of all things and the Most High, whose name is Jehovah. [Ge 17:1; Isa 45:18; Ps 83:18] For that reason Moses could say to the nation of Israel: "Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force." [De 6:4, 5] The Christian Greek Scriptures do not contradict this teaching that had been accepted and believed by God's servants for thousands of years, but instead they support it. [Mr 12:29; Ro 3:29, 30; 1Co 8:6; Ep 4:4-6; 1Ti 2:5] Jesus Christ himself said, "The Father is greater than I am" and referred to the Father as his God, the only true God." [Joh 14:28; 17:3; 20:17; Mr 15:34; Re 1:1; 3:12] On numerous occasions Jesus expressed his inferiority and subordination to his Father. [Mt 4:9, 10; 20:23; lU 22:41, 42; JOH 5:19; 8:42; 13:16] Even after Jesus' ascension into heaven his apostles continued to present the same picture.--1Co 11:3; 15:20, 24-28; 1Pe 1:3; 1Jo 2:1; 4:9, 10. These facts give solid support to a translation such as "the Word was a god" at John 1:1. Make up your mind. Is there one God or more than one God?"If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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There is only one true God, Jehovah. Jesus Christ is the "Son" of Jehovah and the Bible means it. Take time and read the Scriptures and you will get the sense of it.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 4,073 Location: WI
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jnk309 wrote:At John 8:58, once again the king James Version has Jesus using the expression "I am" in connection with himself, saying, "Before Abraham was, I am." But here the expression is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or title but simply as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Thus, according to the New World Translation, the more correct rendering of John 8:58 is: "Before Abraham came into existence, I have been."
Clearly, no Scriptural basis exists for the claim that Jesus is the same as Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures. Even the teacher's manual previously quoted admits: "That Jesus existed before his birth in Bethlehem does not in itself prove He was God." In fact, this is what the Bible teaches. In his prehuman existence, Jesus was "a god," or divine one, but not the God, the almighty God Jehovah.--John 1:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Here you are saying Jesus was a god. That makes two gods. That breaks the first commandment.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me."If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music in which he hears, however measured, or far away.” Henry David Thoreau
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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Bible verses that show Jesus is Divine
by Matt Slick
Following are verses used to show that Jesus is God in flesh.
The scriptures used here are from the New American Standard Bible.
1. John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." A.John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
2. John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."
3.John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."
A. Note: In the Greek, "He" is not there.
4. John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'" A.Exodus 3:14 - "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"
5. John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
6. John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
7. Col. 2:9 - "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
8. Phil. 2:5- 8 - "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
9. Heb. 1:8 - "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."
A.Quoted from Psalm 45:6, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom."
Jesus is worshipped - Jesus said to worship God only, yet He receives worship.
1. Matt. 4:10 - "Then Jesus said to him, 'Begone, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only."’"
2. Matt. 2:2 - "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him."
3. Matt. 2:11 - "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh."
4. Matt. 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God’s Son!"
5. Matt. 28:9 - "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."
6. John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."
7. Heb. 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"
Jesus is prayed to
1. Acts 7:55-60 - "But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears, and they rushed upon him with one impulse. 58 And when they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him, and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60 And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" And having said this, he fell asleep."
2. 1 Cor. 1:1-2 - "Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours." (The phrase, "to call upon the name of the Lord" is a phrase used to designate prayer.)
A.1 Kings 18:24 - "Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord, and the God who answers by fire, He is God." And all the people answered and said, "That is a good idea."
B.Zech. 13:9 - "And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’"
3. Rom. 10:13-14 - "for 'whoever will call upon the name of the Lord' will be saved." 14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard?" (Paul is speaking of calling upon Jesus. (The phrase "Call upon the name of the Lord" is a quote from Joel 2:32)).
A. Joel 2:32 - "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call." (LORD here is YHWH, the name of God as revealed in Exodus 3:14. Therefore, this quote, dealing with God Himself is attributed to Jesus.)
First and Last
1. Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me."
A. Rev. 1:17-18 - "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."
Source
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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The issue at John 1:1: Is Jesus Jehovah? That is what Trinitarians and Christendom want you to believe. There are millions of gods. Even you are a god of your stomach. 1 Cor 8:5, 6: This presents the Father as the "one God" of Christians and as being in a class distinct from Jesus Christ. The translation you quoted John 1:1, is one of thousands of errors that translation is accredited for. Furthermore, You are not aware what the definition of the Trinity consist of. I will oblige you with it, if you want.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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jnk309 wrote:The issue at John 1:1: Is Jesus Jehovah? That is what Trinitarians and Christendom want you to believe. There are millions of gods. Even you are a god of your stomach. 1 Cor 8:5, 6: This presents the Father as the "one God" of Christians and as being in a class distinct from Jesus Christ. The translation you quoted John 1:1, is one of thousands of errors that translation is accredited for. Furthermore, You are not aware what the definition of the Trinity consist of. I will oblige you with it, if you want. Hmm...
I guess that would make you a polytheist?
(a polytheist on steroids - millions of gods) 
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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Now, you put your life in Matt Slick's hand! Matt Slick can't save him self.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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jnk309 wrote: Now, you put your life in Matt Slick's hand! Matt Slick can't save him self. Since when did I put myself in "Matt Slick's hand" to save me?
You, on the other hand, put yourself in the hands of the WatchTower organization.
Who will save you from that mistake?
Do you know Jesus Christ personally? Consider this.
Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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When worshipers of Jehovah were few in number, he gave directions to family heads such as Noah and Abraham and they than acted as Jehovah's spokesmen to their families. [Gen 7:1, 7; 12:1-5] When Jehovah delivered the Israelites from Egypt, he gave them directions through Moses. [Ex. 3:10] At Mount Sinai, God organized the people into a nation, providing laws and regulations to govern their worship and their relations with one another. [Ex 24:12] He established a priesthood to take the lead in matters of worship and to instruct the people in Jehovah's requirements; at times he also raised up prophets to deliver needed exhortation and warning to the people. [Deut. 33:8, 10; Jer 7:24, 25] Thus, although Jehovah listened to the prayers of individual worshipers, he provided instruction for them through an organizational arrangement. As the time neared for Jehovah to begin to unify true worshipers with himself by means of Jesus Christ, God sent him to earth to act as his spokesman. [Heb 1:1, 2] Then with the outpouring of holy spirit at Pentecost of 33 C.E., the Christian congregation was brought into existence. After Jesus had returned to heaven, this congregation became Jehovah's arrangement for instructing and for coordinating the efforts of individual Christians. There were overseers to take the lead in local congregations, and a central governing body made necessary decisions and helped to coordinate activity. Clearly, Jehovah had brought into existence an organization on earth made up of true Christians.--Acts 14:23; 16:4, 5; Gal. 2:7-10.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE: Matthew 17:9, states the transfiguration was a vision. 1John 5:7 does not carry the spurious scripture. Exodus 6:3 refers LORD to Shaddai or YHWH. Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6, carries the word Hallelujah, which means "Praise Jah," Jah a shorten form of "Jehovah." The New World Translation of The Holy Scriptures, is the most accurate Bible on this earth.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,990
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jnk309 wrote:When worshipers of Jehovah were few in number, he gave directions to family heads such as Noah and Abraham and they than acted as Jehovah's spokesmen to their families. [Gen 7:1, 7; 12:1-5] When Jehovah delivered the Israelites from Egypt, he gave them directions through Moses. [Ex. 3:10] At Mount Sinai, God organized the people into a nation, providing laws and regulations to govern their worship and their relations with one another. [Ex 24:12] He established a priesthood to take the lead in matters of worship and to instruct the people in Jehovah's requirements; at times he also raised up prophets to deliver needed exhortation and warning to the people. [Deut. 33:8, 10; Jer 7:24, 25] Thus, although Jehovah listened to the prayers of individual worshipers, he provided instruction for them through an organizational arrangement. As the time neared for Jehovah to begin to unify true worshipers with himself by means of Jesus Christ, God sent him to earth to act as his spokesman. [Heb 1:1, 2] Then with the outpouring of holy spirit at Pentecost of 33 C.E., the Christian congregation was brought into existence. After Jesus had returned to heaven, this congregation became Jehovah's arrangement for instructing and for coordinating the efforts of individual Christians. There were overseers to take the lead in local congregations, and a central governing body made necessary decisions and helped to coordinate activity. Clearly, Jehovah had brought into existence an organization on earth made up of true Christians.--Acts 14:23; 16:4, 5; Gal. 2:7-10. Oh, I see.
The history of the Catholic Church. Apostolic succession.
I didn't know they call them witnesses. ???
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/8/2011 Posts: 338 Location: Lake worth, Florida
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Jehovah's Witnesses: The worldwide Christian society of people who actively bear witness regarding Jehovah God and his purposes affecting mankind. They base their beliefs solely on the Bible. Their beliefs set them apart as different from other religions. Again, your "New American Standard Bible" reads the Transfiguration is a "vision," [Matthew 17:9] it does not carry the spurious Scripture, [1John 5:7] it points to "YHWH" for LORD, [Exodus 6:3] it gives "YAH" as God's name, [Isaiah 26:4] and it uses the word "Hallelujah" four times, [Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6] Hallelujah means "Praise Jah," and Jah is a shorten form of Jehovah. Yes, Steve.
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