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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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More scripture out of context and more ranting and railing, but sonny35 refuses to actually address these specific verses from John.Sonny35 wrote:Mt.5:17, "Think not that I have come to destroy the LAW or the Prophets......"
Jn.14:15, "If you love Me keep My commandments."
Jn.14:21, "He that has My commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me; and he that loves me shall be loved by My Father....."
Jn.15:10, "If you keep My commandments you shall abide in My love, even as I have kept my Fathers commandments and abide in His love."
1st Pet.2:21-22, "For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example that, you should follow in His steps. 22 Who commited no sin, nor was DECEIT found in His mouth."
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It has become apparent that when you of satan's children became tired of slandering Sabbatarians then you turn your hate, lies and slandering against Jesus Himself.
"Quite clearly,Jesus lied..." and "...Jesus indeed lied to his brothers."----Intangible.
"I don't mind his sabbath breaking, but lying is a little much." and "It seems that he intentionally deceived his brothers."---Steve.
Not only does John say, "He that says I know Him, and keeps not His Commandment, IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM." 1st Jn.2:4.
But YOU GUYS say Jesus is a liar, deceiver and a Sabbath breaker!!!!!!!!
ONLY THOSE OF SATAN'S OWN WOULD EVER CALL JESUS A LIAR, A DECEIVER AND SABBATH BREAKER!!!! Rev.13:6 fits you perfectly as who you follow!!!
More ranting without a hint of scripture to back up YOUR claims nor to refute the words of the Bible which I have quoted! Does the COG push this whole liar, liar, rather than give a straight answer thing you do here?
Explain the scripture which clearly states that Jesus told his brothers he was not going to the festival, however, Jesus DID go to the festival in secret. What does it mean? Why was this specific event worth noting by God's chosen Bible author and Apostle, John?
What is the significance?
Is there even a remote chance that sonny35 will address these words of the Holy Bible?
Why did Jesus tell his brothers he was not going, but then he went anyway?
Is this an outright lie, a deception, a ruse... or perhaps he just changed his mind?
Why has God seen fit to preserve these passages?
We are told to follow Jesus, what about THIS example?
Exactly what are we to follow here?
Where is the instruction?
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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sonny35 wrote:These are quotes as THEY CLAIM AGAINST JESUS!!!!!! HERESY AGAINST JESUS!!!!!!
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"Quite clearly, Jesus lied..." and "...Jesus indeed lied to his brothers."----Intangible.
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"I don't mind his sabbath breaking, but lying is a little much." and "It seems that he intentionally deceived his brothers."---Steve.
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John 7
NIV
6 Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. 8 You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. 11 Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?” Once his brothers had left for the festival, Jesus DID go to the festival in secret.
Quite clearly, Jesus lied to his brothers when he told them "I am not going up to this festival."
According to these few verses, Jesus indeed lied to his brothers. There is nothing in the preceding or proceeding verses that change what is clearly stated in those few paragraphs. Rather than your typical hysterical ranting, address these scriptures.
What does it all mean?Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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Sonny35 wrote:Mt.5:17, "Think not that I have come to destroy the LAW or the Prophets......"
Jn.14:15, "If you love Me keep My commandments."
Jn.14:21, "He that has My commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me; and he that loves me shall be loved by My Father....."
Jn.15:10, "If you keep My commandments you shall abide in My love, even as I have kept my Fathers commandments and abide in His love."
1st Pet.2:21-22, "For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example that, you should follow in His steps. 22 Who commited no sin, nor was DECEIT found in His mouth."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matthew 5
New International Version
Introduction to the Sermon on the Mount
1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. {how can anyone be a light to the world when they keep their meeting places a guarded secret?} 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Murder
21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Adultery
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Divorce
31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths
33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
Eye for Eye
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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JOHN 7:8
"Go ye up unto this feast, I go not up "YET" unto unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come." vs 10-But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret." KJV,NKJV.
Now any half-wit would know that Jesus told them to go on ahead, I'm not going "YET" and then He went up later. But not for you, for you it is Jesus lied, Jesus indeed lied. What absolute HERETICS!!
Now I have a question for you?? I here quote intang. from his post #182 where in his red letters he writes from his NIV "I am not going up to this festival..." DID HE PERPOSELY LEAVE OUT THE WORD "YET" TO MAKE HIS CLAIM AGAINST JESUS????? IF SO WHY????? OR DOES HE HAVE A DIFF. VERSION OF THE NIV??? And even if so, would not one check before making such a damnable claim against the Son of God???
My NIV reads "You go to the feast. I am not "YET" going up to this feast, because for Me the right time has not yet come."
In the four versions I checked, the KJV, NKJV, Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible and the NIV, they all include the word "YET"! WHY DID Intang LEAVE "YET" OUT OF HIS QUOTE??? I hope y'all have not sunk THAT LOW!!! But for you to call Jesus a liar it would not suprise me one bit.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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Message was deleted by User. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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FINALLY!
Though venomous, an actual answer using the Bible, thank you, was that so tough?Sonny35 wrote:JOHN 7:8
"Go ye up unto this feast, I go not up "YET" unto unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come." vs 10-But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret." KJV,NKJV.
Now any half-wit would know that Jesus told them to go on ahead, I'm not going "YET" and then He went up later. But not for you, for you it is Jesus lied, Jesus indeed lied. What absolute HERETICS!!
Now I have a question for you?? I here quote intang. from his post #182 where in his red letters he writes from his NIV "I am not going up to this festival..." DID HE PERPOSELY LEAVE OUT THE WORD "YET" TO MAKE HIS CLAIM AGAINST JESUS????? IF SO WHY????? OR DOES HE HAVE A DIFF. VERSION OF THE NIV??? And even if so, would not one check before making such a damnable claim against the Son of God???
My NIV reads "You go to the feast. I am not "YET" going up to this feast, because for Me the right time has not yet come."
In the four versions I checked, the KJV, NKJV, Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible and the NIV, they all include the word "YET"! WHY DID Intang LEAVE "YET" OUT OF HIS QUOTE??? I hope y'all have not sunk THAT LOW!!! But for you to call Jesus a liar it would not suprise me one bit.
This is a direct copy/paste from www.BibleGateway.com...........http://www.biblegateway....OHN%207&version=NIV
John 7
New International Version (NIV)
John 7
Jesus Goes to the Festival of Tabernacles
1 After this, Jesus went around in Galilee. He did not want to go about in Judea because the Jewish leaders there were looking for a way to kill him. 2 But when the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles was near, 3 Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do. 4 No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.” 5 For even his own brothers did not believe in him.
6 Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. 8 You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. 11 Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?”
12 Among the crowds there was widespread whispering about him. Some said, “He is a good man.”
Others replied, “No, he deceives the people.” 13 But no one would say anything publicly about him for fear of the leaders. http://www.biblegateway....HN%207&version=NKJV
John 7
New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus’ Brothers Disbelieve
7 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee; for He did not want to walk in Judea, because the Jews IIaII sought to kill Him. 2 Now the Jews’ Feast of Tabernacles was at hand. 3 His brothers therefore said to Him, “Depart from here and go into Judea, that Your disciples also may see the works that You are doing. 4 For no one does anything in secret while he himself seeks to be known openly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.” 5 For even His brothers did not believe in Him.
6 Then Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always ready. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil. 8 You go up to this feast. I am not yet IIbII going up to this feast, for My time has not yet fully come.” 9 When He had said these things to them, He remained in Galilee.Footnotes: a.John 7:1 That is, the ruling authorities b.John 7:8 NU-Text omits yet. "John 7:8 NU-Text omits yet."
Why?
Why omit "yet"
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 9/9/2008 Posts: 2,981
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Intangible wrote:This is a direct copy/paste from www.BibleGateway.com........... http://www.biblegateway....OHN%207&version=NIV John 7 New International Version (NIV) John 7 Jesus Goes to the Festival of Tabernacles 1 After this, Jesus went around in Galilee. He did not want to go about in Judea because the Jewish leaders there were looking for a way to kill him. 2 But when the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles was near, 3 Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do. 4 No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.” 5 For even his own brothers did not believe in him. 6 Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. 8 You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. 10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. 11 Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?” 12 Among the crowds there was widespread whispering about him. Some said, “He is a good man.” Others replied, “No, he deceives the people.” 13 But no one would say anything publicly about him for fear of the leaders. Now this is interesting. I have the same on-line bible version as you, I believe Steve does also. Why would BibleGateway.com NIV version leave the word "yet" out of it's scripture verse? Is it suppose to be there or not?
Maybe more importantly, why would Sonny not point this out much earlier. Was he aware of the discrepancy in the differing versions all along?
Sonny, what say you?
Sarge
~ Insults Should Be Written In Sand ~ Compliments Should Be Carved In Stone ~
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/9/2008 Posts: 2,981
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Let's post the scripture with and without the word "yet" inserted.
John 7:6-11 NIV
6 Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. 8 You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. 11 Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?”
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6 Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. 8 You go to the festival. I am not yet going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. 11 Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?”
Jesus says "I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.
vs
Jesus says "I am not yet going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.
Now, here's my question. Does this change the "context" or the question of, was Jesus being totally honest when considering his own words as to "why" he was not going up to the festival?
Also, he went in SECRET, not publicly. He went AFTER his brothers had left.
The question I have now is WHY?
Anyone?
Sarge 
~ Insults Should Be Written In Sand ~ Compliments Should Be Carved In Stone ~
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My, My, My, would you just look at ALL the spinning, twisting and squirming around over the word "YET".
Should not an apology be offered to the Lord God for calling Him a liar instead of all this?????
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/9/2008 Posts: 2,981
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Sonny35 wrote:My, My, My, would you just look at ALL the spinning, twisting and squirming around over the word "YET".
Should not an apology be offered to the Lord God for calling Him a liar instead of all this?????
Spinning, twisting and squirming around?
I see none of that! It was you who brought the word "yet" to
light only to accuse. How judgmentally indicative of you!
We are attempting to get to the truth of the matter.
You are here only to accuse and look down your nose on others.
Who are YOU to sit in judgement of anyone, anywhere, ever?!
Also, if an apology would be forthcoming, then it would be none
of your damn business whatsoever!
YOU sir, are an absolute self righteous, pompous, judgemental
ass and a Class "A" Jerk!
Very much indicative of the common ilk you
associate yourself with. Unbelievable!
Sarge 
EDITED 2:39pm ~ Insults Should Be Written In Sand ~ Compliments Should Be Carved In Stone ~
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The truth of the matter? The truth of the matter is y'all shot your damn mouth off and called Jesus a liar when you did not know what you were talking about.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 9/9/2008 Posts: 2,981
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Sonny35 wrote:
The truth of the matter? The truth of the matter is y'all shot your damn mouth off and called Jesus a liar when you did not know what you were talking about.
YOU are WRONG! The truth of the matter? You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you right between your eyes!
The ONLY person shooting their mouth off is in fact YOU!
You falsely charge us with "calling Jesus Christ a liar". The facts are we were commenting on what we saw in the scriptures. This IS a forum and you have taken our words and as usual twisted them into something that they never said in CONTEXT! YOU Sabbatarians are famous for this exact behaviour against anyone who doesn't buy into your false doctrines.
Had anyone called Jesus Christ "a liar" then it would look much like this...Jesus Christ is a LIAR! Have you seen anyone make this statement? Of course not! Why? Because it didn't happen in the manner you are falsely accusing us with, that's why! That's called bearing false witness!
You are LOOKING to make a case where there is NOT one so YOU can feel better about yourself being involved in a cult who points their fingers at EVERYONE who is not a member of their so called "remnant church" that nobody can find!
You also conduct yourself this way to be judgemental because you believe you are "more righteous" and better than everybody! That's exactly why YOU in fact are trying to turn the tables because the FACTS are that it is you who calls others LIARS!
YOU actually believe your better than everyone and anyone who doesn't fall for your traps! Your own words prove your guilt!
Nobody here "called" Jesus Christ a LIAR in the context you have placed upon it. The ONLY person guilty of unnecessary namecalling and falsely accusing the other members here with calling others "a LIAR" since their arrival has been YOU!
YOU are also the only guilty party of bearing false witness and you know it or at least you should. I believe Satan has a much tighter hold over you than you realize!
Another "truth of the matter" is YOU need to mind your own business and stop butting in where you or your lying comments are not welcome. That is the truth of the matter!
Shame on YOU!
~ Insults Should Be Written In Sand ~ Compliments Should Be Carved In Stone ~
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Still spinning,twisting and squirming I see.  And now it's becomes my mistake when another states; "Quite clearly, Jesus LIED to his brothers..."---Intangible, #117,pg6 and "Jesus INDEED LIED to his brothers..."---Intangible, #117,Pg6 when I say he called Jesus a liar????? And boy how quick y'all jumped on the wagon accusing Jesus when you did not even know what the h you were talking about.    Y'all stepped in it all by your own stupid, vain and arrogant little selves so don't try and wipe off your crap onto someone else.
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Rank: Advanced Member  Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,991
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Intangible wrote:FINALLY!
Though venomous, an actual answer using the Bible, thank you, was that so tough? ... Pretty amazing.
Not a great response, but a response none the less.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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sarge wrote:Let's post the scripture with and without the word "yet" inserted.
John 7:6-11 NIV
6 Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. 8 You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. 11 Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?”
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6 Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. 8 You go to the festival. I am not yet going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. 11 Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?”
Jesus says "I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.
vs
Jesus says "I am not yet going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.
Now, here's my question. Does this change the "context" or the question of, was Jesus being totally honest when considering his own words as to "why" he was not going up to the festival?
Also, he went in SECRET, not publicly. He went AFTER his brothers had left.
The question I have now is WHY?
Anyone?
Sarge
Although I was aware of the "optional" word yet in various translations, I do not cut out or edit anything in the Bible quotes I post. Despite the vitriolic cursing, condemning and contempt that flows from sonny35, I have never purposely omitted ANYTHING when I quote God's Word and I don't play hop-scotch with the Bible quotes attempting to "prove" my statements.
Most of the versions that put the "yet" in also have a footnote stating that some versions do not put in the yet. There are several angles to cover and questions to ask in this short verse. First, as you point out is context, does the one word change the context? Then you need to consider the variety of texts, why do some put it in and others leave it out.
Sonny35 has demonstrated the deception he claims I use, just look at what he did to my posts!sonny35 wrote:"Quite clearly, Jesus lied..." and "...Jesus indeed lied to his brothers."----Intangible. Yes, indeed I posted those exact words and, as presented by sonny35, it appears I am making a clear statement of MY opinion. Of course context is always our friend.
This is the complete quote which sonny35 edited and pasted together.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quite clearly, Jesus lied to his brothers when he told them "I am not going up to this festival."
According to these few verses, Jesus indeed lied to his brothers.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When sonny35 edits out the qualifiers in my statements, it is the same method he "teaches" the Bible.
By eliminating "According to these few verses," the context is stripped away from my words. It does indeed appear that it is ME that is calling Jesus a liar when edited in this fashion. The fact is I am directly quoting God's words in the Holy Bible and I am asking why. Why does Jesus say what he did? What did Jesus mean when he said "my time has not yet fully come?" Why do some translations insert "yet" while other do not?
Is this some sort of deception or ruse by Jesus or is it manipulation of Bible texts?
Why is this story even told?
I think these verses have plenty to discuss and debate without all the ranting and personal attacks from the holier than thou modern day Pharisee. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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Sonny35 wrote:
The truth of the matter? The truth of the matter is y'all shot your damn mouth off and called Jesus a liar when you did not know what you were talking about.
1 Timothy 6
New International Version
These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
2 Timothy 2
New International Version
14 Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene.Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Well, now I guess along with y'alls spinning, twisting and squirming I can add self-justification. Hard to believe but now I'm the one that is called names, ridiculed, cussed out, etc., and for what? For pointing out that Jesus had not indeed lied. And they even gloat by saying they caused me to show them that they were wrong????? Figure that one out if you can. That should clearly show you silent readers what these guys think of themselves, they think it can not be possibe that they could ever be wrong! THAT is as they see themselves. I bet if you listen closely you can still hear the PC's clicking and pages turning by them still trying to come up with some way to get rid of the word "YET". 
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 3,100 Location: on a hill in the hollow
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Sonny35 wrote:Well, now I guess along with y'alls spinning, twisting and squirming I can add self-justification. Hard to believe but now I'm the one that is called names, ridiculed, cussed out, etc., and for what? For pointing out that Jesus had not indeed lied. And they even gloat by saying they caused me to show them that they were wrong????? Figure that one out if you can. That should clearly show you silent readers what these guys think of themselves, they think it can not be possibe that they could ever be wrong! THAT is as they see themselves. I bet if you listen closely you can still hear the PC's clicking and pages turning by them still trying to come up with some way to get rid of the word "YET". Back to the same old sonny35.
More ranting, more accusations, cursing and name calling, but not actually discussing the Bible, just the same old slamming of others by sonny35. Despite his hysterical rants, I have been attempting to actually discuss these verses. I guess I'm the fool for thinking he would EVER stick to the topic without the continual degrading of others and personal attacks.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Rank: Advanced Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Posts: 12,991
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John 7:8 Some early manuscripts do not have yet.
This is significant.
The early manuscripts are the closest to the original.
Some of them do not have the word "yet".
So, it is either being inserted or omitted.
More likely inserted.
Meaning, the copyists were having the same problem with it that we are.
The way the text reads it makes Jesus appear to be a liar.
Here is a better explanation of what happened.
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John 7 - IVP New Testament Commentaries
Jesus Goes Up to the Feast in God's Way
It appears Jesus' movement is falling apart. Many disciples have left Jesus (6:66), his betrayal is in view (6:71), and he has to lay low in Galilee because of death threats in Judea (7:1). Jesus' brothers give him some family advice: he should go back to Judea and do some miracles so that your disciples may see the miracles you do (7:3). Apparently, when his disciples left him they went to Judea. Maybe if Jesus did another sign they would give him a second chance. If Jesus wants to be a public figure, he should show himself to the world (7:4). This might look like a great statement of faith by Jesus' brothers, but John sets us straight: For even his own brothers did not believe in him (7:5). Recognizing that Jesus is a miracle worker does not make one a believer. Rather, here the world is offering the Son of God some marketing strategies. They assume he wants to be in the limelight and will do what is necessary to gain a following. In this they echo Satan's temptation (Mt 4:1-11 par. Lk 4:1-13). But Jesus rejects their suggestion just as he rejected the earlier attempt by some to make him king (6:15). Jesus' aim is not to gain a following but to reveal his Father by being faithful and obedient to him. Jesus does not need suggestions from others, even those closest to him in his family.
Jesus contrasts himself with his brothers, saying they are part of the world and alienated from God (7:6- 8): The right time [hora, "hour"] for me has not yet come; for you any time [hora] is right (v. 6). Jesus will indeed go to Judea to perform a great work--his death. But it is not yet time for him to die. Jesus has not come to do his own will, he has come to do the will of his Father (6:38), and thus his schedule is determined by God. However, by saying any time is right for his brothers he is saying they are not under the Father's guidance. The problem with their time is precisely that it is theirs and not God's. Rather than being of God they are of the world (7:7); that is, they are among those who are alienated from God.
Jesus says the world hates him because I testify that what it does is evil (7:7). Jesus testifies like the prophets of old did, an association important later in this chapter (7:40, 52). He reveals that many of those who appear godly are in fact alienated from God (see comment on 3:19-21). Evil is understood as that which is not of the Father. Jesus' statement to his brothers is an example of his testimony to the world's evil, for he reveals that their apparent faith is, in fact, not faith at all. The world hates him, for it does not want its evil exposed by the light (3:20; 8:12). Therefore this rejection of Jesus, emphasized by John (even his own brothers did not believe in him, v. 5), itself bears witness to his identity as the revealer of the Father, as the light who has come into the world.
Jesus says he is not going to the feast because for me the right time has not yet come (7:8). When he made the statement to them he had only their word that he should go, and he rejects them as a source of guidance. The fact that he does actually go to the feast suggests that he received instructions from the Father to go after he spoke to his brothers. Such apparent inconsistency is a common feature in the lives of believers who are sensitive to the Lord's leading. "There never was a more inconsistent Being on this earth than Our Lord, but He was never inconsistent to His Father. The one consistency of the saint is not to a principle, but to the Divine life" (Chambers 1935:319, Nov. 14; cf. 184, July 2).
There are some important similarities between this story and the wedding in Cana, where Jesus' mother had requested something but his hour had not yet come (2:1-11). In both cases Jesus goes on to do what his relatives had suggested, but he does so on his own terms. These two stories emphasize Jesus' loyalty to his heavenly Father's will. Not even those closest to Jesus in human terms--his mother and brothers--could influence him. He must be entirely open and obedient to God. Here we see again Jesus as the model of discipleship (cf. Mt 12:50).
The conclusion to this opening section introduces the dynamics of what is about to unfold at the feast. Jesus went to the feast not publicly, but in secret (7:10), and he leaves the same way (8:59). Jesus' secret arrival and departure are part of the theme in these chapters of where Jesus is from and where he is going (7:27-29, 34-36, 41-42, 52; 8:14, 21-23, 42). This motif is very significant theologically, for Jesus is from and is going to the Father.
John continues by giving a very skillful depiction of the situation. The Jews are on the lookout for "that guy" (ekeinos, v. 11). The people are afraid to talk about Jesus publicly because of the authorities (v. 13), but in private they debate with one another (v. 12). Some say Jesus is a good man, and others say he is a deceiver (vv. 12-13). The accusation that Jesus is a deceiver is a very serious charge, and it continued on in the polemic later between Jews and Christians (for example, Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 69, 108; b. Sanhedrin 43a; 107a; b. Sota 47a). Labeling Jesus as a deceiver is probably like charging him with being a false prophet who should be put to death for leading Israel astray in her relationship with God (Deut 13:1-11). Hence John notes the threats against his life (7:1,19, 25; 8:37, 40), which culminate in an actual attempt to kill him by stoning (8:59).
The Jewish leaders understand the enormity of Jesus' claims and the foundational issues he raises. Their reaction is justified if Jesus' claims are indeed false. If Jesus' claims are not true, then he is not a harmless teacher who can be tolerated or ignored. In our pluralistic society we have lost the sense of significance regarding religious views. While we need not return to stoning false prophets, believers should have a sense of urgency in opposing false teaching. Jesus and his opponents cannot both be correct, and the choosing between them has eternal consequences. If Jesus is Lord, then he cannot be wedded to any other religion or philosophy. Rather, he is the standard of truth by which we assess all other claims. There are elements of truth in all religions, but we are able to recognize those elements precisely because they cohere with Jesus, the truth incarnate. If Jesus is not the truth, then he cannot offer us life (1 Jn 5:20). Contrary to the view of many today, false teaching is a serious matter!
Source
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? - Galatians 4:16
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 2,958
Location: TX
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Intangible wrote:Sonny35 wrote:Well, now I guess along with y'alls spinning, twisting and squirming I can add self-justification. Hard to believe but now I'm the one that is called names, ridiculed, cussed out, etc., and for what? For pointing out that Jesus had not indeed lied. And they even gloat by saying they caused me to show them that they were wrong????? Figure that one out if you can. That should clearly show you silent readers what these guys think of themselves, they think it can not be possibe that they could ever be wrong! THAT is as they see themselves. I bet if you listen closely you can still hear the PC's clicking and pages turning by them still trying to come up with some way to get rid of the word "YET". Back to the same old sonny35.
More ranting, more accusations, cursing and name calling, but not actually discussing the Bible, just the same old slamming of others by sonny35. Despite his hysterical rants, I have been attempting to actually discuss these verses. I guess I'm the fool for thinking he would EVER stick to the topic without the continual degrading of others and personal attacks.
I believe poor Ingang. is suffering from hallucinations or maybe paranoia, can anyone else see "cursing" and "name calling" in my above post? (lets hope it's only a well deserved guilt complex) Or maybe like the guy that says, I'm not paranoid! I KNOW their after me!  OH well, no one's perfect.
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