I thought he was off the "premises".



Debate, or just bait?

There comes a time when individuals go to far in their transgressions and like it says in Hosea....

Hos 4:17

7 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.

KJV





God chose Israel to reveal His character to men. He desired them to be as wells of salvation in the world. To them were committed the oracles of heaven, the revelation of God’s will. In the early days of Israel the nations of the world, through corrupt practices, had lost the knowledge of God. They had once known Him; but because "they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, . . . their foolish heart was darkened." Romans 1:21.



Yet in His mercy God did not blot them out of existence. He purposed to give them an opportunity of again becoming acquainted with Him through His chosen people. Through the teachings of the sacrificial service, Christ was to be uplifted before all nations, and all who would look to Him should live. Christ was the foundation of the Jewish economy. The whole system of types and symbols was a compacted prophecy of the gospel, a presentation in which were bound up the promises of redemption. {AA 14.1}



     But the people of Israel lost sight of their high privileges as God’s representatives. They forgot God and failed to fulfill their holy mission. The blessings they received brought no blessing to the world. All their advantages they appropriated for their own glorification.



They shut themselves away from the world in order to escape temptation. The restrictions that God had placed upon their association with idolaters as a means of preventing them from conforming to the practices of the heathen, they used to build up a wall of separation between themselves and all other nations. They robbed God of the service He required of them, and they robbed their fellow men of religious guidance and a holy example. {AA 14.2}



     Priests and rulers became fixed in a rut of ceremonialism. They were satisfied with a legal religion, and it was impossible for them to give to others the living truths of heaven. They thought their own righteousness all-sufficient, and did not desire that a new element should be brought into their religion.



The good will of God to men they did not accept as something apart from themselves, but connected it with their own merit because of their good works. The faith that works by love and purifies the soul could find no place for union with the religion of the Pharisees, made up of ceremonies and the injunctions of men. {AA 15.1}



     Of Israel God declared: "I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto Me?" Jeremiah 2:21. "Israel is an empty vine, he bringeth forth fruit unto himself." Hosea 10:1. "And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt Me and My vineyard. What could have been done more to My vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? {AA 15.2}



     "And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to My vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down: and I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.



For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah His pleasant plant: and He looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry." Isaiah 5:3-7. "The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them." Ezekiel 34:4. {AA 15.3}



     The Jewish leaders thought themselves too wise to need instruction, too righteous to need salvation, too highly honored to need the honor that comes from Christ. The Saviour turned from them to entrust to others the privileges they had abused and the work they had slighted. God’s glory must be revealed, His word established.



Christ’s kingdom must be set up in the world. The salvation of God must be made known in the cities of the wilderness; and the disciples were called to do the work that the Jewish leaders had failed to do. {AA 16.1}

Quote: Originally posted by catsaregrrrreat on 21 May 2008

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fortunately for us, no.

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Huh? Did you mean unfortunately for us?

unlike paulwhut who quotes from a variety of sources; the KJV, the perverted SDA version of the bible and cultic writers, etc...





Leviticus 26:40-42



In Leviticus 26, Moses foretold of how the Jews would be scattered all over the world as a result of disobedience to God’s revealed will. And through verse 39, worldwide dispersion is a fact, fulfilling Moses’ prediction. According to the New Testament, this was caused specifically by the rejection of the Messiahship of Jesus.



Then, in Leviticus 26:40-42, Moses states:



40 And they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, in their trespass which they trespassed against Me, and also that, because they walked contrary unto Me, 41I also walked contrary unto them, and brought them into the land of their enemies: if then their uncircumcised heart be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity; 42then will I remember My covenant with Jacob; and also My covenant with Isaac, and also My covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.



Verse 42 reveals that God has every intent to give Israel all the blessings and promises of the Abrahamic Covenant, especially as it pertains to the Promised Land. But before they can begin to enjoy these blessings and promises of the Abrahamic Covenant, during the Messianic Age, it is first necessary for them to fulfill the condition of verse 40: They must confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers. Notice this: The word “iniquity” is singular, and it is specific. There is one specific iniquity which Israel must confess before she can begin to enjoy all of the benefits of the Abrahamic Covenant.



Jeremiah 3:11-18:



11And Jehovah said unto me, Backsliding Israel hath showed herself more righteous than treacherous Judah. 12Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith Jehovah, I will not keep anger for ever. 13Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against Jehovah thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith Jehovah. 14Return, O backsliding children, saith Jehovah; for I am a husband unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion. 15And I will give you shepherds according to my heart, who shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. 16And it shall come to pass, when ye are multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith Jehovah, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of Jehovah; nether shall it come to mind; neither shall they remember it; neither shall they miss it; neither shall it be made any more. 17At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of Jehovah; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of Jehovah, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the stubbornness of their evil heart. 18In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have for an inheritance unto your fathers.



In verses 14-18, Jeremiah begins to describe the blessing which God has in store for Israel in the Messianic Kingdom. It will be a time of tremendous blessing and restoration for the Jewish people, when the Kingdom is established by their Messiah. But all these blessings are conditioned by verse 13, which declares that they must acknowledge or confess one specific iniquity that they committed against Jehovah their God.



Zechariah 12:10



The third passage is in the Book of Zechariah. Zechariah chapters 12, 13 and 14 are a unit of thought that develop one theme. Chapter 13 speaks of the national cleansing of Israel from their sin. Chapter 14 describes the Second Coming of Messiah and the establishment of the Kingdom. But these events – the cleansing of Israel followed by the Second Coming of Christ and the Messianic Kingdom – are all conditioned on Zechariah 12:10:



And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.



Before Israel receives the cleansing of her sin and before Christ returns to establish His Kingdom, Israel must first look “unto” (not “upon” or “on” as in some translations) the One whom they have pierced and plead for His return. Once they do this, then, and only then, will they receive their cleansing and begin to enjoy the blessings of the Messianic Age.



Hosea 5:15



The fourth passage is in Hosea five, a chapter in which the One speaking is God Himself. In verse 15, He states: I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me earnestly.



There are certain presuppositions behind the understanding of this verse: One must leave a place before returning to it. In this passage, God states that He is returning to His place. God’s place is Heaven. Before God can go back to Heaven, He must first leave it. The question is, when did God leave Heaven? God left Heaven at the Incarnation in the person of Yeshua of Nazareth. Then, because of one specific offense committed against Him, Jesus returned to Heaven at the ascension from the Mount of Olives.



This verse further states that He will not come back to earth until that offense which caused Him to return to Heaven is acknowledged or confessed. What is that Jewish national offense committed against the person of Christ? It is not, as many believe, the act of killing Him. The murder of Messiah was committed by Gentile, not Jewish, hands: He was condemned and sentenced by a Gentile judge; He was crucified by Gentile soldiers. But all this is ultimately irrelevant; God’s program for mankind – Jews and Gentiles alike – required Jesus to die anyway to become the sacrifice for sin. The national offense of Israel was in the rejection of His Messiahship. And Hosea 5:15 again affirms that Yeshua will return to the earth only when this offense is acknowledged or confessed.



Matthew 23:37-39



The fifth passage, in Matthew 23, contains Christ’s denunciation of the Scribes and Pharisees, the Jewish leadership of that day, for leading the nation in the rejection of His Messiahship:



O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.



Speaking to the Jewish leadership, Christ reiterates His original desire to gather them if they would only accept Him (v. 37). But due to their rejection of His Messiahship, they will be scattered instead of gathered. Their house, the Jewish Temple, will be destroyed with nothing remaining (v. 38). He then declares that they will not see Him again until they say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. This is a messianic greeting, and it will signify their acceptance of the Messiahship of Jesus.



Messiah will not return until the Jews and the Jewish leaders ask Him to come back. For just as the Jewish leaders led the nation to the rejection of His Messiahship, they must someday lead the nation to the acceptance of that very same fact.



This, then, is the basis of the Second Coming of Christ: Israel must confess her national sin and then plead for Messiah to return, to mourn for Him as one mourns for an only son.



give it up paulwhut and those who would do away with the Jewish people. why do so many gentiles wish they were Jewish????

You never read the post did you...impossible unless you are of a reprobate mind.

It is the scriptures that are your problem...not one posting of mine has ever, ever been answered sufficiently...ever.

mkeffer, your postings are confusing. Some of what you say is of scripture, (good), but when It comes to your deductions.....they are bad.



You do not try to dance with Jesus, you throw rocks and call names. You are in the same canoe with satan. You once knew the sabbath truth, but went back to sunday keeping.....you have no excuse.



James 4:17

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

KJV

It is my bedtime....goodnight mkeffer....(I love you man)



paul

Quote: Originally posted by paulwhut on 21 May 2008

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It is my bedtime....goodnight mkeffer....(I love you man)



paul

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That is why I think so much of Paul. Comes in, states his beliefs, doesn’t brow beat, belittle, call names or challenge aggressively. When he is done there is no aught in his heart. Tells his ridicular of his love for him and bids him goodnight. Now that’s a Christian. I may not agree with all his doctrine but that’s where I wish to be as a Christian some day!

paulwhut, Do you expect to see any of these folks in Heaven?





Hebrews 11



1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.



5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.



7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.



8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.



11 By faith Abraham, even though he was past age—and Sarah herself was barren—was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.



13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.



17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 19 Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.



20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.



21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.



22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions about his bones.



23 By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.



24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.



29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.



30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the people had marched around them for seven days.



31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.



32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37 They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.



39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised.

40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.